Was curious about the weight which could be saved if the Italia was re-designed with a carbon fiber tub instead of aluminum? The future is pointed towards higher standards for fuel efficiency while reducing engine discplacement size, too. Even with KERS, which does adds weight, overall weight reduction seems like the best and most likely solution. I doubt aero tweaks can solve these problems compared with losing a few hundred pounds of weight. What do you think?
I seem to remember Ferrari recently confirming their commitment to aluminum for the immediate future.
But there are compromises. Getting in and out of the 12 C is a challenge for some because of the high sills required for crash protection or stiffness. Engineering is always a compromise. There are few "perfect" solutions. It's the wave of the future but it is not perfect yet. Then again, when isn't CF the wave of the future in everything automotive?
The Carrera GT has a CF tub too. That also is a bear to get in and out of for us long boned individuals.
I think that's because the floor is so low to the ground for good cg. Not sure sill height is determined by cf or not.
After getting in and out of the dealer's MP4 a couple of times (I'm average height and fit), I don't think it's good setup for daily driving. It's fine for a weekend car, but it would probably get old fast if used on a daily basis. The 458's more traditional design is much more user-friendly.
Maybe 100lbs? As the CS and Scuderia have shown, a CF tub isn't required for light weight. They both weigh less than the CF tubbed Enzo, mp4-12c and carrera GT.
I think that it is important to differentiate between the types of tubs out there because there are massive differences to note. Type 1: Full monocoque Examples: McLaren F1, Porsche CGT, Ferrari Enzo In this instance the whole structure of the car is carbon and molded or bonded to be one piece. Pros: Lightest option. Stiffest option (you always want a chassis as stiff as possible because it allows for the suspension to do its work rather than having the suspension fight against chassis flex) Cons: Extremely expensive, slow to produce, difficult to repair. Type 2: Partial monocoque Example: Lamborghini Aventador The partial monocoque is a complete driver shell that ends at the firewall and front bulkhead and is inclusive of the window frame and roof. The forward and rearwards sections are sacrificial aluminum structures that bear the load of the suspension and engine/gearbox. Pros: Very light and stiff. Faster to produce. Easy to repair in an accident (just unbolt and re-bolt replacement aluminum structures). Much less expensive than a full monocoque. Cons: Less stiff than a full monocoque and heavier. Type 3: Carbon tub Example: McLaren MP4-12C The least expensive option (but still way more than a uni-body metal car) the carbon tub is at present the only cost reasonable option for a car that has to be produced in larger numbers and serviced and repaired by a worldwide network of dealers. Remember that the McLaren is much cheaper than an Aventador which accounts for why it is not a one piece drivers cell. Pros: Lighter and stiffer than metal. Easy to repair. Can be made in higher volumes Cons: heavier and less stiff than a full or partial monocoque. As for weight savings I cannot comment on the amount because I just don't have enough info. It is my feelings that the McLaren tub is more of a marketing thing than an actual engineering advantage at this time. Much like the early carbon ceramic brakes were brought to mass market way too early by marketing rather than practical forces. I hope that this is of use to the discussion
My best guess is the next 458 will be a evolution of the current 458 will still have aluminum chassis but an improved V-8 similar to what happened with 360 to 430 But beyond that they may intro carbon chassis with turbo V-6 and kers.Buy then the weight difference between carbon and aluminum will probably be more substantial than it is today Plus the cost of carbon will have come down significantly
The carbon tub used in the McLaren MP4 12C is exactly what I was thinking. The 458 spider would be a good case for such a carbon tub-saving weight and possible adding rigidity too. The side sill height might be something which can be modified to make the ingress and egress easier. The Enzo used a carbon fiber tub and had pretty good ingress and egress. The A pillar might also be less obtrusive with carbon fiber. Some have commented that the A pillar on the 458 spider is a bit thick. As to the expense, most things gets less expensive with volume. Napolis re-designed his Enzo tub for his one-off. I think he was able to improve the design in terms of rigidity and even shave off some weight too.
To some degree, I think all this Carbon Fiber stuff is a gimmick to get people to buy cars because it has "the latest technology". The 458 is so ridiculously fast that if you tried to see what it's envelope is like on city streets, it will put you in jail. Ok, on a track -- sure. But the amount of track miles Ferrari's ever see is insignificant to justify the costs. The wave of the future is lightness but it's not for performance sake. It will be for cost savings in fuel and lower emissions. What you're going to see is similar performance as today but with smaller motors and electric added performance. That's where CF will have a future.
