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Carbon Fiber Timing Belts?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by ExcelsiorZ, Mar 1, 2007.

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  1. ExcelsiorZ

    ExcelsiorZ Formula 3
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    #1 ExcelsiorZ, Mar 1, 2007
    Came across this article from a composite website newsource. Perhaps someday soon we'll have a semi-solution to Ferrari timing belt issues:

    Goodyear develops carbon fiber ATV drive belt
    | February 26, 2007

    Goodyear Engineered Products (Akron, Ohio) has developed a “self-healing” carbon fiber drive belt for all-terrain vehicles (ATVs).

    Goodyear Gatorback Sport is the first continuously variable transmission (CVT) belt with carbon fiber reinforcement in its body construction, according to Loren Danhauer, Goodyear chief belt engineer. “Threadlike strands of carbon fiber are strong and flexible and weigh much less than steel of similar strength,” says Danhauer. “The fiber alignment in the rubber compound provides added stiffness across the width of the belt.”

    A CVT system varies the working ratio of two v-shaped pulleys linked by the belt, says Jonathan Cocco, marketing manager for Goodyear aftermarket products. The distance between pulley flanges can fluctuate, allowing the belt to ride smoothly up or down the pulley, continuously changing the gear ratio and varying vehicle speeds.

    The pulleys are part of a power sensing drive that increases tension during acceleration and lowers tension when power is reduced. Danhauer says conventional CVT belt sidewalls can glaze and char from heat buildup when engaged with pulleys under extreme loads. Materials from the top width of the belt then turn down and inward, creating vibrations that can quickly destroy the belt.

    “Gatorback Sport regulates itself under extreme events,” says Danhauer. “Its carbon fiber in the rubber compound allows desired edge slippage without losing top width. When extreme demand subsides, the belt self-heals and again picks up the load.”

    Gatorback Sport’s performance was born from race technology introduced last year. Hendrick Motorsports and eventual NASCAR Nextel Cup Series Champion Jimmy Johnson turned to Goodyear for help after making mid-season engine adjustments for added horsepower that increased demand on cam drive belts by 50 percent.

    Goodyear responded by mixing carbon fiber reinforcement in rubber compounds for the new timing belt. The result was an advanced composite that withstood the increased loads and higher temperatures, allowed engines to run more efficiently, and provided precision timing in a harsh environment.
     
  2. Husker

    Husker F1 World Champ

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    #2 Husker, Mar 1, 2007
    I don't know that there is a timing belt "issue." The belts last a LONG time. But that is only a small part of the equation. Rollers, bearings, tensioners, water pump, etc. Now if THESE are made out of carbon fiber... Hmmmmmm
     
  3. t024484

    t024484 Karting

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    #3 t024484, Mar 1, 2007
    Interesting information. Looks quite promising.
     
  4. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    #4 smg2, Mar 1, 2007
    timing belts are already made with a composite core. polyester, kevlar or fiberglass and hybrids of them. the belt in question in the article is designed to 'slip' that slippage will destroy most all belts, the 'healing' nature of the new belt is to keep it from destroying itself. a timing belt cannot slip or it wouldn't be doing it's job.

    Now if they want to start using the spectra fiber, I'm all for that.
     
  5. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    #5 bpu699, Mar 1, 2007
    Hmmm...

    I don't think I have ever seen carbon fiber used in a flexible application...

    The carbon fiber itself has almost no strenght, until it is saturated with epoxy/glues/etc. It has strenght when used as a composite.

    The carbon fiber material I have used is really woven threads in a mesh. If you take out one of the threads, you can pull it apart relatively easily...

    Why not use kevlar? Kevlar thread is quite strong, and flexible...
     
  6. UConn Husky

    UConn Husky F1 Rookie

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    #6 UConn Husky, Mar 1, 2007
    I could see it working well in a V-belt maybe, but I'm not convinced how much benefit there would be to our cogged belts. As I understand our belts don't normally break straight across, it's more a case of one or more cogs breaking off.
     
  7. Llenroc

    Llenroc F1 Veteran
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    #7 Llenroc, Mar 1, 2007
    This isn't related to carbon but to kevlar usage in timing belts, Ferrari offers belts with a kevlar layer on the cog side. I used a pair on my 355 on the last belt service. To the touch they feel smoother, maybe this =s less friction, weather that would contribute longivity I not sure but the std belt seems rougher. What ever can make the cog area stronger has to be a plus. If I remember correctly they were about 2x the cost of the std belt. Part No. for std is 154378 vs. 181610 for kevlar. sorry for getting off topic. Regards, Vern
     
  8. MJT328GTS

    MJT328GTS Formula Junior

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    #8 MJT328GTS, Mar 1, 2007
    I also work in an industry where we develop Kevlar and Carbon Fiber into products to improve strength, so as an Engineer and product developer, I can speak to this subject without feeling out of place.

    Adding Carbon Fiber or Kevlar is more of a gimmick than actual performance improvement, especially when it comes to belts. Kevlar is used to replace nylon fibers in these type of applications, but the cost is magnitudes higher. So the benefit is in using less while getting the same strength.

    Carbon fiber is also used as a replacement, but it is not as strong as Kevlar but costs the same.

    Since belt wear is mostly due to the material breakdown of the rubber over time and temperature cycling, adding kevlar or carbon fibers really don't help the life of the belt.
     
  9. ExcelsiorZ

    ExcelsiorZ Formula 3
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    #9 ExcelsiorZ, Mar 2, 2007
    Gotta love the expertise one finds on these threads! Thanks guys!

    What is spectra fiber?
     
  10. Valence

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    #10 Valence, Mar 2, 2007
    I like it for sails and ropes. From honeywell's site:

    Spectra® fiber is one of the world’s strongest and lightest fibers. A bright white polyethylene, it is, pound-for-pound, ten times stronger than steel, more durable than polyester and has a specific strength that is 40 percent greater than aramid fiber.
    Spectra® fiber is made from ultra-high molecular weight polyethylene that is used in a patented gel-spinning process. Polyethylene is a remarkably durable plastic, and scientists at Spectra Technologies have captured the tremendous natural strength in the molecular backbone of this everyday plastic to create one of the world’s strongest and lightest fibers. The gel-spinning process and subsequent drawing steps allow Spectra® fiber to have a much higher melting temperature (150°C or 300°F) than standard polyethylene.

    With outstanding toughness and extraordinary visco-elactic properties, Spectra® fiber can withstand high-load strain-rate velocities. Light enough to float, it also exhibits high resistance to chemicals, water, and ultraviolet light. It has excellent vibration damping, flex fatigue and internal fiber-friction characteristics, and Spectra® fiber’s low dielectric constant makes it virtually transparent to radar.

    Spectra® fiber is used in numerous high-performance applications, including police and military ballistic-resistant vests, helmets and armored vehicles, as well as sailcloth, fishing lines, marine cordage, lifting slings, and cut-resistant gloves and apparel. Honeywell also converts Spectra® fiber into the Spectra Shield® family of specialty composites for armor and other applications.
     

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