car designers top 10 places to work

you nailed it

 

@Jeff Kennedy

Im not going to debate you on design when it comes to cars from an era that looked like the Batmobile.

But the modern Chrysler's designed by this Tom Gale fellow... the LH platform, yes a great cab forward profile, except the cars are a death trap and the engine made to fail. Nice way to balance that one out... also this style doesnt exist anymore except for the Civics which are too bulky.
He's also accredited for;
The Dodge Stealth - good proportions, not to be found again.
The Dodge Viper - genius, except the design was riced out in the later years and not affordable for a regular working man.

I really like the 1993 Chrysler Thunderbolt concept he did, way better then the majority of coupes in the last few decades... this just goes to prove my point. Why are we offered these lame cookie cutter boxes on wheels... its because if the cars were truly beautiful people would cherish them, repair them, and not upgrade every 5-7 years.

 

Your conclusion is still wrong. You must like Oliver Stone and see a conspiracy at every chance too.

First, let's start with what the designers can and cannot control. They are working the aesthetics. They may be able to get concessions from engineering to move a component or have a different solution to enable a design to work better. Design is not in charge of the engines, transmissions or a bunch of other elements. Somewhere else in the organization the basic layout/configuration (package) for the car is created and then handed over to design to get started on. Judge design on design not build quality or powertrain components.

Everyone wishes that the great concept cars could go to production unaltered. Problem is that will not happen. A concept car was not developed for mass production. A concept car did not have to make a price point. And a concept car did not have to go through all the company politics to reach a sign off for production.

You point to the Viper as having a problem of not being affordable to the "working man". The nature of the car meant that it would be low production as high volume is not happening with a 2 seat monster motor car. Even the massively successful (for its segment) Miata is relatively low annual volume. As one goes further and further in the development process what becomes new continues to drive the development costs higher. These then have to be amortized over the projected production volume. As the cost goes up the likely volume goes down further until the Viper is at a price point that the company determines will work.

Don't look at the 1950's cars at batmobiles. The GM 1958s were generally horrible but there is a well documented reason that stems from the 1957 Chrysler line. Ford had a couple of good looking cars in the time period and whole lot that were unremarkable. Look at the Studebaker Starliner coupe and try to talk about batmobiles. During this same period look at the volume European sedans, not the sports cars, and you will find that across the board they were mostly disappointing aesthetics.

If you want to actually understand design, the people that drove design forward (or not) and the corporations they had to work within then there are 2 books to read. One was co-authored by Dave Holls (now deceased ex-GM senior designer) and the other was by a university professor; used to have it but long ago loaned it and it never came back. Also you can go to DeansGarage.com and find a lot from the designers that actually worked in the field.

Jeff

 

Well stated Jeff!

Most people even in the industry have no idea what it takes to go from sketch to customers with a car in the garage. Designers, engineers, marketing, logistics, purchasing, cost estimating, labor, training, regulatory standards, and so much more goes into production. As companies like Fisker and Tesla have found out, building a car is a billion dollar business just to make one car. The only thing keeping Tesla afloat is the green energy credit exchange.

I believe our friend ZX would be surprised to find out that cars have gotten so good, that it has negatively affected new car sales greatly in the past 10-15 years. If the car companies wanted to force people into new cars, we would still be needing new engines every 4-5 years as a general rule of thumb, among many other advancements.

 

I love it when people trot out Fisker and Tesla as the great game changers. Fisker made a pretty car but collapsed because their financial projections were all smoke and mirrors. Even the US government finally had to recognize the (inconvenient political) truth on Fisker and pull the plug on further funding.

Now we get to Tesla. Their zealots make it a religion not a car. Say anything against the car and you might as well be an infidel. Point to the fact that it is a car and must perform day in and day out just like any other vehicle and you are called a Neanderthal. Even we the fanatic fans of Ferrari have a better grasp of the Ferrari failings than the Tesla crowd will ever admit. How many hours of GM NAO production does it take to equal the entire Tesla production to date?

Everyone remember when Henry Kaiser said that he would start building cars? He made a point of how he would invest some amount of money that the general public thought was enormous but the Detroit response was "throw him a white chip". The meaning was that a white chip is the cheap marker in betting and that was al his investment was worth against what it took for the real players to be in the game. In other industries Kaiser was a real player but in automotive he was not even close. It is magnitudes worse today.

Jeff

 

More like Mark Dankof and Kevin Barret... and yes I always see conspiracy, even when I ride an elevator with no 13th floor to be found.

For example, the Chrysler Thunderbolt didnt need anything in the overall picture... its looks like it shared the LH chassis with enough space to mount a front engine and even off the shelf bulky headlights.
Of course the panels could've been made from fiberglass as that material was being used since the 50's... so there's no excuse of great build cost to make that nice proportioned and silky car except it looked too good.

Having the manufacturing equipment already made, prices should only go lower. Did it need a large motor to exist?
I dont see why todays streets have to be polluted with these garbage Cavalier and Sunfire coupes that are used as appliances on wheels when so many appealing designs had preceded them.

If I spent a day looking through my archives Im sure I could find dozens of previous designs that, I feel personally, triumph the Studebaker... I think major players in the Americas, Europe, Japan and South Korea have all been under the control of a cartel.
After homes and interest, cars are high on the list to enslave the populace... I doubt any mass produced car will have beautiful looks, a reliable engine, and be affordable unless rouge countries step up their game and enter the market somehow.

Thanks but honestly I have yet to finish a book in my lifetime... Im sure there are genuine artist and high level management that strive for the best, but history has shown me that great designed cars will always be out of reach.
If Toyota offered Lexus LFA styling with a reliable engine for under 30k in next few years, then I'd eat my words.

 

Fiberglass is a very maintenance heavy material until tech improvements over the last 20 years. ... and extraordinarily heavy until those said improvements.

Look at the cost of retooling equipment, engineering the assembly system is not a simple process. Sunfires and Cadav-aliers are appliances; often build at a loss, at least until recently. One of the failed aspects of the model which government regulation necessitated.

You make an outlandish claim that cars are putting people into servitude, yet completely overlook at the individual liberty which is achieved with the car.

It would be wise to start spending time reading books.

 

Look at the Thunderbolt more closely. It was not designed to be for production. Thin in terms of who would have been the intended buyer and at what rice point it would have been. No back seat to very marginal back seat would have doomed that it in the market. The double bubble backlight would have never made it to volume production.

The Viper was conceived as a modern day 427 Cobra. It got an engine that was coming from the truck line. That it was outrageous made part of its mystique. Practical was never part of its consideration.

Your cartel conspiracy theory falls away with further analysis. Not sure the Piech (VW & Porsche) would consider themselves conspiring with the Quandts (BMW) or the Agnelli (Fiat) and certainly not with the Hyundai/Kia owner in Korea or Ford or GM. These are all highly competitive groups.

 

I dont see how retooling would greatly decrease the profits that could be made from continuing a watered down version of the Viper. I also didnt believe these huge company announced losses as the American auto makers dont even do proper recalls, but rather let people die as long as the liability isnt too great.
If these companies really did get into some-kind of irresponsible debt my "conspiracy" gut feeling would be its intended outcome was to shut the company down temporarily to cut off promised employee benefits.

"A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one."

Cars from the 90's are good enough to transport people around... but Hollywood, which dictates society and values, has brainwashed people into thinking that you are as good as the car and materials you own. People are constantly paying big money to upgrade cars while paying interest and its depreciation... basically wasting part of their life working to pay for little artistic changes in new cars.

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One of the first LH platforms in 1993, the Concorde, started at $18k (without including inflation), seeing how most commuter cars are single occupant, even releasing this car in 2014 would surely get more sales then the endless econoboxes that companies are selling now.

If an independent car company wanted big profits by outselling competing affordable cars, it would only be a win win situation.

we can start by looking at these charts
http://i.imgur.com/lz8Ny.jpg
http://s56.radikal.ru/i154/1008/a7/4ec49d95ef9b.jpg

These companies are all highly suspect.
VW being started by its state "regime" at the times, that same regime went on to invade other countries, then the Bank for International Settlements had the British hand over the occupied countries gold to Germany thus bank rolling it.
At the same time you have figures like Schief (the family behind Western Union) being the muppets that over threw the Russian monarch which later fought with Germany.
So we have allied international bankers funding both sides of the wars!
Forward to present day, WV and GM are involved in the demise of the United States and Mexico with the NAFTA agreement. YouTube "The Wonderful World of NAFTA"

The US is suppose to be a republic with a capitalistic system, yet its has socialist ways of "bailing out" private car companies and private banks. The same banks involved in the worlds largest theft with the real-estate crash and world "banking crisis".

Japan and South Korea are not sovereign countries. For industry to become large there it needs large loans and to give away control of its company by doing so if it is independent.
Japanese cars populate all of the world, you can go to the ends of Africa and you'd find a Toyota... yet that little country is like the 2nd most indebt nation @12Trillion... why?


Off the top of my head I think it was one of Fiats top presidents that was tied to weapons manufactures. This was in a uranium weapons documentary which would be hard for me to track down.

Anyway its not hard to believe that there are ruling overlords who have a monopoly in the first worlds banks, equaling control of most countries, armies, world food supply, diamonds and other precious commodities, industry and automobiles!