car design thread | Page 296 | FerrariChat

car design thread

Discussion in 'Creative Arts' started by jm2, Oct 19, 2012.

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  1. Qvb

    Qvb F1 Rookie
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    John Dixon
    Most people right out of school do not know what a real car is (but they are very confident that they do)
     
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  2. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Advising Moderator
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    Could you not nudge them in the direction you want with the experienced designers at the top of the chain?

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
  3. Qvb

    Qvb F1 Rookie
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    In general I would want to avoid the newbies, but, of course, when someone super talented comes along you snatch them up.
     
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  4. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    Anyone interested in the history and origins of car design/styling, this book is great.
    Tells the story of how Harley Earl started the whole profession of car design back in the late 1920's. Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  5. bitzman

    bitzman F1 Rookie
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    I read the review , maybe it was in the NY Times. I was surprised it said Harley was so profane (I thought that was Mitchell's thing..).. I wonder if Harley, when enticed by GM to come out from the West in '27, was promised a salary far more than was customary in Detroit at the times. Also he gave a Cadillac two seater (LeMans) to Marie "The body" MacDonald. I wonder what his wife had to say about that? I think a big coup in PR was when he loaned Eisenhower the LeSabre dream car to drive around in Yurrip, thus showing those snobby Euros that america had designers too...Love to hear some Harley Earl stories...
     
  6. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Advising Moderator
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    This came up as a YouTube recommendation for me:



    For once, the recommendation was actually kinda cool. I wonder why that kind of door hasn't caught on.

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
  7. Qvb

    Qvb F1 Rookie
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    Notice the the inner door panel has no features (no armrest, no pocket, no side impact door beam) just a smooth curved surface. Basically there is no room under the occupant/floor to put something as thick as a door. Real doors with features are actually quite thick. Could be cool on a minimalist kit car or something. It also requires frameless glass. Overall it is very limiting.
     
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  8. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Advising Moderator
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    Armrest: put it on the seat.

    Side airbag: on the seat. (E.g. MINI)

    Frameless glass: e.g. MINI

    Door pocket: usually useless, can't even put a manilla folder in most without bending it. Delete the useless thing.

    Window controls: put them on the center console (again, e.g. MINI)



    The only thing I see as iffy us the crash structure, which might be expensive to make thin enough. But I'm sure it's not technically impossible.

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
  9. Qvb

    Qvb F1 Rookie
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    I think you would find a plain door panel incredibly ugly in a very boring way, but yes it is doable. Armrest on seat is a common show car feature that never makes it anywhere because it creates ingress/egress issues. Door pockets are great for water bottles etc. We use ours constantly. It would definitely have to be on an expensive car (complex electric door, exotic door beam etc) so it would be a tough sell. I will fall back to my previous comment that it would be very limiting. (And not much benefit)
     
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  10. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    $$$

    they've been showing this concept since the late '80's.
    There's a reason it hasn't been adopted.
    As Qvb/John pointed out, the drawbacks outweigh the attributes.
    At least for now.
     
  11. energy88

    energy88 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    If ever implemented, I think this type door might be more practical on an SUV where there is plenty of ground clearance and rocker panel height to accommodate the mechanism. However, the design seems best suited to 2-door vehicles rather than 4-door vehicles due to the critical importance of the "B" pillar area to support the rear of the door. If only one large door were applied on SUVs, the second seat passengers would probably feel cheated having less ingress/egress area with a conventional door. Rear doors seem to be problematic due to being adjacent to the rear wheel wells.
     
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  12. Protouring442

    Protouring442 F1 Veteran

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    One Stupid SOB

    They had tailgates like that.

    Judging by the sounds, this one is in dire need of maintenance...

     
  13. energy88

    energy88 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Glad GM was able to take the concept to production and refine it for practical use.

    Back in 1964, Ford had the Aurora concept station wagon (which seems crude to the GM application). Ford's clamshell design was for access to the "children's seat."
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  14. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    But that's exactly what the video shows... large 2 doors for both front and rear access... looked like good access in the video... the rear passengers don't look cheated at all...
     
  15. energy88

    energy88 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Yes! The clamshell works great on a 2-door coupe or convertible since the door cut opening can be extended much further rearward towards the rear wheel well. Presently, doors must end about the front seat back to avoid having a 6-foot-plus long door that would be heavy to operate and couldn't be opened enough in most garages. Note the Audi door cut example and the additional foot of space to enlarge the door opening
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    However, on a 4-door vehicle, the rear door opening typically utilizes part of the area above the wheel well for access. Since the clamshell can't run under the wheel well or thru it, the clamshell would result in about half the opening area available for rear passengers to access. See red SUV example below. Yes, children could probably still squeeze into the back with half the opening, but adults would certainly complain. That was the point I was trying to make- some vehicles may be too short to provide much advantage for the rear seat.

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    However, on a longer vehicle like a Lexus LS 500, there may be enough room to make the clamshell idea practical.
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  16. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    Guessing you did not watch the video... will open fine in a garage... no side clearance to speak of... watch the video...
    If it wil open on the Lincoln... works on an Audi.
     
  17. energy88

    energy88 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    My comment was referring to existing car doors and not the clamshell design not working in garages.

    Presently, doors must end about the front seat back to avoid having a 6-foot-plus long door that would be heavy to operate and couldn't be opened enough in most garages.
    Otherwise, you have this if long doors need to swing too much in narrow spaces:

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  18. energy88

    energy88 Two Time F1 World Champ
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  19. lambchop

    lambchop Karting

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    Love the Rivian truck!
     
  20. tritone

    tritone F1 Veteran
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    .....but don't love the $60K entry-level pricing........o_O
     
  21. lambchop

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    I've read the "entry truck" is actually the top of the line offering, in other words, they'll enter the market with their absolute best foot forward and then later add less expensive models/battery options. If that is the case, it's actually priced competitively. Yeah,we're in a world of 60-70k "luxury" pick ups, denalis, platinums, etc.
     
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  22. energy88

    energy88 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Love that cross-bed rear storage compartment pictured in the article. These guys are really thinking outside the box! (no pun intended)
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  23. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Advising Moderator
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    The Rivian sounds interesting, but I wonder why so many fully electric offerings go for the enormous dash-mounted iPad-type interface rather than actually having some buttons and dials on the dashboard.

    Given the size of trucks and their ride quality, you cannot easily lean across the cabin with an outstretched hand and be precise where you poke with your finger to change a setting. Voice control is variable at best, a little distracting to use, and much slower than a simple button that you can seek out by tactile senses. These kinds of vehicles would be vastly improved by incorporating more real buttons on the dashboards.

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
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