California exhaust upgrade: mufflers vs. X-pipe | FerrariChat

California exhaust upgrade: mufflers vs. X-pipe

Discussion in 'California/Portofino/Roma' started by cars_drive_me, Jan 1, 2016.

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  1. cars_drive_me

    cars_drive_me Rookie

    Mar 10, 2015
    9
    Seattle area
    Full Name:
    Greg
    Hi all - this is my first post since I picked up my 2010 Nero/Rosso California early in December. I traded in my F430 on it, and have been super impressed by the car so far (and the wife doesn't hate this one, which is a bonus). The build quality and sophistication feels 10-15 years ahead, rather than the reality (5). I guess people feel the same way about the 458.

    The exhaust sound (lack of) is really the #1 thing I feel needs modification on the car. It's super quiet!

    As a first step, I thought that I would do the "disconnect the exhaust flaps" trick. This afternoon I removed the panel under the mufflers and unplugged the vacuum lines (and sealed them up with screws). I went for a short drive - It's a bit louder, I guess. But less than expected!

    My F430 had a combination of headers + stock muffler with disconnected flaps. It was the loudest car in the city - airplane loud. It was really too much at times. Glorious, but a bit loud for a daily driver. My neighbor asked me "Does your car have... a muffler?"

    Does anyone have a feeling on the volume/sound impact of the X-pipe (such as Fabspeed) separately from mufflers (Capristo/Armytrix/etc)? Does having one or the other change the character of the sound, or just volume? I'd really love to get that pornographic downshift crackling noise I had in the 430, albeit at a little lower volume.
     
  2. Eric R

    Eric R F1 Veteran
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    Nov 19, 2014
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    Eric R.
    Can't answer your question but very interested in a pro/con of the Cali vs F430 from you. I looking at both since they fit in my budget. Plus I would like to take trips with my wife so I do fear the F430 would be complained about. That said I too would change the exhaust on the Cali if I got one hense the reason I popped in.

    Thanks!
     
  3. DK308

    DK308 F1 Rookie

    Aug 13, 2013
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    Europe, way north.
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    AB
    The muffler design will have an effect on the volume, not so much the X-pipe. The F430 exhaust is generally louder than the Cali exhaust so not really a comparison. Normally like an X-pipe, the headers don't affect volume as much as they affect the pitch of the sound. This can of course make it seem louder, but in reality it only seems that way because we are more sensitive to higher pitched sounds, which is usually the result of headers. The X-pipe will change the sound and take away some low end grunt, but add some power on top. Many like them in conjunction with louder aftermarket mufflers and sport cats or test pipes, as they often remove some of the drone associated with many aftermarket exhausts. I'd do the Capristo mufflers and X-pipe with remote for the flaps so they can be used. I think it's the nicest sounding Cali exhaust out there as it is not as artificial sounding as others, but that's a matter of personal taste. If that's not loud enough, add the sport cats.
     
  4. pr0b

    pr0b Rookie

    Oct 18, 2015
    14
    hi,
    im just finished with testing around with my exhaust.
    if you put sport cat and x-pipe with standard rear box its very loud, if you also change the rear box to a valved one (eg capristo) its even louder.
    changing just the rear box (i have valved capristo) and leave cats+xpipe it gets a little louder and the pitch changes, also it sounds a lot more aggressive, especially if you have a manual switch for the valves. on downshifts and overrun its really nice now. pops and bangs and you can hear the blips at the downshifts.

    for my taste sportcat + xpipe is too loud. i live in a big city in austria and you cant drive around like this. the cops wont tolerate, especially under WOT. i was on a track and tried F3000 and it's just a bit quieter than that, just so you can imagine.

    also i think that kind of noise doesnt fit the california. if i were driving a speciale or scud no problem, but on a daily like the cali, no thanks.

    just my 2 cents...
     
  5. Mvpelayo

    Mvpelayo Rookie

    Sep 12, 2019
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    Mike pelayo
    What if you just change the x pipe? Will it be louder? Has anyone done this?
     
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  6. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
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    Start by doing the Capristo mufflers and X-pipe. The X-pipe will not make the car louder, but it smooths out the sound and removes drone sounds. Like on a 458, headers are a nice addition as the stock manifolds leave a lot to be desired, both from a performance and weight savings standpoint. I can't for the life of me figure out, why Ferrari can design so nice headers for the 812, and come up with crap like those logs put on the 458 and Cali.

    Adding headers, X and back boxes will net you a nice increase. Consider the Forza controller. Unlike the Capristo ckntroller, it has three modes. Auto, Full Open and Full Close. Your wife might appreciate the latter, and it is nice to be able to close completely for quiet cold-starts if needed be etc.

    See if this is enough before getting into sport cats or test pipes. They will need ecu mods or a Novi piggy as to not cause CEL issues etc.

    Also think about smell. Now, a car with sport cats are not too bad, but it does smell a bit. But a car with no cats reek of exhaust stench inside and out like a 50 year old clunker. Not sure your wife will be happy with that.

    I suggest Capristo as I think their quality is by far the best I've seen. Novi is as good, but a lot more expensive. As an added bonus I think Capristo is the nicest sounding out there. It's more natural with many nuances. Some of the other systems like Innotech F1 are so artificial and synthetic sounding it's a joke. It may be high pitched, but it's not a defined engine sound, it's just a tiresome high pitch noise.

    Not a fan of Armytrix either. Know several whom have had issues with quality, and lots of droning and resonance. To me it looks a bit like Armytrix is targeted at the 18-25 year old trust fund kids in Lambos and youtube "sensations" where using a product with a cool name and getting the highest SPL is all that matters.
     
  7. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
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    Michael
    #7 4th_gear, Sep 14, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019
    Thanks for the nice write-up. My experiences in this area are generally similar to yours but I do have a few comments.

    Firstly, while Capristo and Novitec do offer exhaust headers for the 458 AFAIK, they do not provide them for the Cali models; and only offer sport cat, x-pipe/straight pipe and sport muffler exhaust upgrades. I do not know of any aftermarket exhaust headers specifically-designed for the Cali models. While there may be generic aftermarket headers for V8 engines, I would not advise using them as they are likely to cause problems or damage.

    Regarding the X-pipe upgrades, my understanding and experience is that they improve power delivery once your engine revs go into the higher end. It has to do with exhaust velocity. At the lower end of the engine revs range, the X-pipe does not work as well as the factory H-pipe because of, again, exhaust velocity. To make a car upgraded with an X-pipe work well at lower street speeds, you must (quickly) rev the engine to higher engine speeds more so than you normally would when the car was using its original H-pipe. Again, I'm referring to engine speeds, not vehicle speeds. I am not suggesting you break the traffic speed limit. I'm just saying you need to use the engine at higher engine revs if you want to realize the benefits of the X-pipe.

    Finally, the Cali's factory H-pipe has an integrated resonator so that feature helps to prevent droning. Unfortunately, if you try to add a resonator to an aftermarket X-pipe, assuming you can, you will likely mess up the X-pipe's design and performance. As I have said elsewhere on the forum, a practical way to avoid droning is to figure out the resonance frequency (engine rev point) of your particular exhaust setup and then manually select transmission gearing to avoid the resonance frequency. I suspect there are probably sophisticated ways to counteract resonance other than to use a resonator but they would likely be expensive to design and make.
     
  8. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
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    The headers I was thinking of, are from Fabspeed. I forgot to put that in the post. I'm definitely more into the Capristo stuff, but a Capristo exhaust with Fabspeed headers should make for a very nice and reliable package.

    The two Calis I've been in that had Capristo x pipes only, actually seemed smoother and less droney inside than bone stock Calis. This is also something many have experienced with the FF, F12, Lusso etc. where x pipes have been used.

    Generally speaking, all the DCT era Ferraris I've been in with exhaust mods, the best and most comfortable has been those with an x pipe. All of those I've heard with aftermarket back boxes being it Capristo or other, had a significant improvement in drone level when paired up with an x pipe vs. stock mid section.

    When doing the aftermarket exhausts, I definitely think the x pipe does a much better job of controlling drone than the stock mid section.
     
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  9. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
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    I think you are mistaken. While Fabspeed does make exhaust headers for the 458 it does not for any of the Cali models or the PF. I have no idea why.

    I've had a full Capristo exhaust system on my Cali30 HS for a few seasons and I can only comment from direct experience. I also had the Capristo muffler mated to the factory H-pipe for one season. The factory exhaust does not drone, the Capristo sport muffler alone also does not drone but the full Capristo exhaust system will drone if the exhaust valve is fixed open and you then drive it in a high a gear for the conditions, such as when you leave the DCT in AUTO mode. I always take the DCT off the AUTO mode unless I am going through an area with police speed trap(s). In which case, I will also select the COMFORT Manettino setting and activate cruise control set to a very safe speed. If you close the exhaust valve, the droning is barely noticeable as when you decide to cruise in high gear on the highway.

    Ferrari will not sell customers a car designed for a broad customer market, like the Cali, that will drone, because that would be a recipe for a sales disaster. This is why the H-pipe has a resonator. X-pipes do not have resonators because people who buy X-pipes want high flow and loud exhausts whereas resonators are in effect, in-line mufflers, which also restrict exhaust flow.

    IMO, the original H-pipe for the Cali is a good design and performs well. The reasons why I don't use it are because the Capristo Sport cats will only fit the Capristo X-pipe (see attached photo below, edited from the Caprist video) and the X-pipe does work better with the Sport cats to increase top end power because that combination is the least restrictive.

    FWIW, the Fabspeed Sport cats will apparently fit the factory H-pipe if that's what you want to do.

    IMO, if you want a raw, powerful NA car it will be loud and it will drone more readily than if the car were muffled but muffling the car will by definition, kill power as well as kill the noise.

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  10. Mvpelayo

    Mvpelayo Rookie

    Sep 12, 2019
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    Mike pelayo
    Thank you guys for the inputs. I really appreciate it!! I have recently bought the cali and wanted to make the sound louder/better without having drone. Will do an Xpipe + Muff upgrade. I dont want to make the car faster coz wont be in a race track most of the time. Thank you so much fam!
     
  11. Mvpelayo

    Mvpelayo Rookie

    Sep 12, 2019
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    Mike pelayo
    Another question, what x-pipe can fit the capristo mufflers? I can't seem to find an x pipe by capristo. All of them are sold as set with the 200 cell cat or decat. Thank you
     
  12. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

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    Contact Capristo and see if they will put together a package with an x pipe and mufflers, but without the cats. If they can't just use Novitec article no. F1 888 23
     
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  13. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
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    I have spoken with Fabspeed before and I understand the Fabspeed X-pipe should work with the Capristo sport muffler as the Capristo muffler also works with the original H-pipe. You don't have to use a Capristo X-pipe with the Capristo sport muffler.
     
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  14. Nick.C

    Nick.C Rookie

    Oct 14, 2019
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    nicholas chatburn
    Are there any X pipes out there that don’t cost silly money and will be a direct replacement for the standard item ?

    I looked at the Fabspeed, but at around $2000 fitted, its too expensive, considering the almost exact same X pipe for an Audi RS is circa $200.
     
  15. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
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    Trust me, you don't get the exact same exhaust for 200. Labour, machining, materials won't get you there. Maybe a cheap Chinese pipe that doesn't work well, fit poorly and crack, but not one of quality steel and good fabrication.

    See what Kline charges.

    At any rate, this is Ferrari-land and you pay FAVT. You pay to play, this is not a nicer VW.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  16. Alleykat

    Alleykat Karting

    Apr 2, 2009
    163
    Houston,Tx
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    Alex
    Old post but here goes. If you simply cut off that factory resonator and straight pipe it, it makes a huge difference in sound. I did it to a friends car and everything else stayed stock. The hard part was pulling the exhaust section out from under the car. Rusty bolts and slip joint connectors made it a nightmare.

     
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  17. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

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    I have to say that this does not seem like a good solution.
    Sorry to say, but that modified exhaust just sounds like a fart can exhaust or an exhaust with a hole in it.

    One of the things one get if one purchases a Capristo or Novi exhaust, is an exhaust that is developed to work with the intake.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  18. Alleykat

    Alleykat Karting

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    I’ll have to agree to disagree. :)
     
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  19. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
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    I'm fine with that. I'm sure we can agree on several other things:)
     
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  20. Sammi

    Sammi Karting

    Aug 8, 2020
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    I am also interested in doing some performance/exhaust mods on my Cali.

    I have been considering the Capristo X pipe with 200 cell Sports cats.

    Another option I have considered is the Capristo Twin Sound Valve Exhaust System.

    I’m undecided what I feel would be a better fit for what I’m looking for. Has anyone added any of these mods to their Cali? Interested in some feedback.
     
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  21. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    X pipe hardly does anything. The biggest change always comes from the cats, just spent 10k on the FF and really all I truly needed was the 200 cats


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  22. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    I’d ageee with u. Resonator removal is good for a Ford Focus not a Ferrari!


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  23. Redneck Slim

    Redneck Slim Formula 3
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    As I have posted before,I am very happy with a Kline x-pipe ($1000) and Tubi mufflers ($3900,use stock valve mechanisms). A Capristo E2E controller ($650) at the same time is a good idea;the sound is great with stock ECU control,but going to Open provides some extra snarl when desired. And when your power level begins to feel insufficient (that day is coming),add BMC air filters and an ECU flash or piggyback system (my recommendation is the Vivid Racing/VRTuned flash);it will feel like you had an engine transplant.
    I am interested in Kline 100 or 200 Sport Cats. They are expensive ($4300),and I wonder what they offer as to sound (too loud?) and more power.
     
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  24. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    Like I said I got all kline set up-200cel-the difference was the cats in power and sound!


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  25. Redneck Slim

    Redneck Slim Formula 3
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    But was that with a normally aspirated V-12 or a turbo V-8?
     

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