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Buying tips

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by Il Tifoso, Jun 13, 2015.

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  1. Il Tifoso

    Il Tifoso Formula 3
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    Oct 22, 2013
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    Ruben
    Wow, thanks for the tip David! Would you mind scanning/taking a pic of the article?

    I know the car was resprayed 5-6 years ago by Bobileff in its present Blu Chiaro. The reason for the respray was some spidering and chips on the original black paint. No accidents apparently, but I'll let my trusty paint meter gauge determine this.

    Cheers!

    Ruben
     
  2. Il Tifoso

    Il Tifoso Formula 3
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    Thanks Mike... Do you mind posting a pic of your car?

    Cheers!

    Ruben
     
  3. Il Tifoso

    Il Tifoso Formula 3
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    Oct 22, 2013
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    Ruben
    So curious - has anyone seen this car in recent times?

    One thing of concern I just learned: all cylinders show compression of 150-160... Except cylinder #8, which shows 100. I know that the car has not been driven much in th last 6+months, which could be affecting this.

    I'm told that it runs smoothly with good power, no smoke or hesitation.

    Thoughts?

    Ruben
     
  4. Ramboy

    Ramboy Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2009
    769
    Stockholm
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    David Ramm
  5. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day Ruben,

    I would be cautious of this issue until a proper diagnostic is made. Low Compression is one thing, but having a cylinder that is over 10% less in compression with the others is of a concern. Could it be sticky piston rings, etc? Who knows, but without someone truly knowledgeable about these engines and their nuances could result in a very expensive bill. At a minimum a compression retest should be done along with a leak down test...

    Secondly, given that you stated that Gullwing wants the PPI at their location effectively limits a proper PPI. I would ask, why should they be concerned if the car is flatbed-ed to a known and approved Service Garage? This "onsite PPI" requirement would raise concerns for me.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  6. Il Tifoso

    Il Tifoso Formula 3
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    Thanks Sam,

    Yes, indeed... proceeding VERY cautiously! I've arranged a PPI with Tom Yang (recommended by a few folks here via PM) and the first thing we'll do is a compression retest and go from there.

    Will keep this thread updated.

    Thanks all!

    Ruben
     
  7. Ashman

    Ashman Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Shown as "Sold" on the Gullwing Motorcars website today.

    A lot of time has passed since Don Meder was featured in that Forza article 14 years ago. It appears that he sold it around or sometime after the Forza article came out. Then it was advertised in 2004 out of Washington State with 35,433 miles. Starting later in 2004 and continuing through at least 2006 it was advertised for sale again out of California but the stated mileage was 31,000. Can't imagine why anyone would bother rolling back an odometer that already was low miles by another 4,000 miles, so perhaps those reports were in error.

    Anyone know what the indicated mileage showing is now?

    If the current compression issue is confirmed, there are several reasons that could be responsible, none of them inexpensive.
     
  8. Ramboy

    Ramboy Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2009
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    David Ramm
    #33 Ramboy, Jun 15, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here are some rather poor scans from Forza.

    Looking at the article again I am not 100% convinced it was black, it may have been dark blue. Perhaps the paint code is still in the boot.

    It looked in very good condition back then, clean engine bay, nice interior etc.

    Don Meder, the first owner, was clearly a connoisseur - he had owned a Daytona, 330 GTC, 308 GTB and 550 Maranello. Regarding the 412, "It was exactly what I wanted" he enthuses...."I wanted a true GT, and that is what I got." It's a very favourable article.

    He used it for long trips to Monterey (400 miles each way). It was ordered through an Italian dealer and Ron went to Maranello to choose the colour and options. It was converted to US spec by Larry Englehart at Ferrari Technology in Southern California.

    One obvious discrepancy is the mileage - the speedo clearly states 53,945 miles and this is confirmed in the article. Could those miles really be kilometres? In the Bobileff advert from December last year the mileage was stated to be 60,000 km. Something to clarify anyway.

    David
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  9. Il Tifoso

    Il Tifoso Formula 3
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    Thanks David!! This is great!

    Regarding the odometer, it's an open question I had as well. The speedometer has been clearly swapped to read mph... does anyone know if the speedo and odometer are separate entities where one could be miles and the other kilometers?

    I'm flying out to NY later this week to do the inspection and check out the car overall. I'll look more closely at the paint sticker, which is present but says "Blu Chiaro" which it currently wears. Agreed that in the article, the car looks more like Blu Sera.

    Ruben
     
  10. Ashman

    Ashman Three Time F1 World Champ
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    All of my notes from the article and subsequent ads say the color was Blu Sera.
     
  11. Il Tifoso

    Il Tifoso Formula 3
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  12. bjwhite

    bjwhite F1 Rookie

    Mar 17, 2006
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    Sure looks blue in that magazine article....
     
  13. Il Tifoso

    Il Tifoso Formula 3
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    #38 Il Tifoso, Jun 17, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2015
    John, great info - thanks for sharing! Curious how /where you gathered this info? Is it available online somewhere?

    BTW, the current odometer reading is 60,0XX. I still have an open question on whether it's miles or kilometers... Gary Bobileff listed the car earlier 2015 and stated it as "60K km". If so, the mileage you quote as somewhere in the 30K mile range makes sense (give or take, depending on how good someone is at math). The odd thing is that the speedo reads in mph... is it possible that the odometer and speedometer read in different units (km vs miles)?

    I'm currently flying from CA to NYC (currently somewhere over CO) and will try to figure this out tomorrow when I check out the car.

    Cheers!

    Ruben
     
  14. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
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    For one, I prefer the 5-speed but that's just me. Obviously, it was OK with Enzo to equip them with auto's after the prodding from Chinetti & others or he wouldn't have built them...I'm tempted to think that it was for US marketing reasons. Funny thing is that they 'officially' never made it over here.
    The Forza article shows a MPH speedo with 53,945 mi..
    From what I understand, the original cars had the KM speedo & that there was a MPH sticker that was appliqued to the KM speedo when the cars were federalized here. That was probably done as soon as it was imported over here 'brand new' as opposed to many of them that were brought over here 'used'. In just about all instances, evidence of the sticker's presence shows up around the 4 small lights at the bottom in the form of white circles at their edges.
    The future listings of 30,000 & 35,000 mi. after the Forza article was written are puzzling :confused:
    Tom should be a big help for you, & as Sam mentioned, a leak-down test is even more important.
     
  15. Il Tifoso

    Il Tifoso Formula 3
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    Thanks Bruce for clarifying on the speedo... I think this makes sense: if you divide the stated odometer kilometers by 0.621 (i.e. - there's 0.621 miles per km) you get the 30K and 35K miles advertised.

    In other words, the car currently reads 60K (which is in kilometers) which is equivalent to about 37K miles.

    Cheers!

    Ruben
     
  16. Il Tifoso

    Il Tifoso Formula 3
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    #41 Il Tifoso, Jun 20, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2015
    It's official - 63321 is coming back to California! :)

    As mentioned earlier, Tom Yang met me at Gullwing where they had set up a service bay for us to do the inspection. Tom is not only SUPER knowledgeable about all things vintage Ferrari, but he's delightful to spend 6+hours with pouring over every detail of the car. It was a highly educational day as Tom explained and talked about his findings as we went through the car.

    The main concern was the supposedly low compression reading from one of the pistons. So the first line of business was to do a re-test and confirm/deny this finding... All Pistons hovered around 180, while the supposedly low compression one read 160. Right on the edge of the "10% rule", but close enough for us to feel overall good about the engine. I have hope that with a few "Italian tune ups" over the next few thousand miles should help bring that piston further back in line.

    The rest of the car looked in very nice shape, as the pics suggested. This car looks to have been loved, for sure. Further evaluations of the car showed no real concerning findings and the car pulled very strong and smooth (both my uncalibrated butt-dyno as well as Tom's highly calibrated one). The sound is absolutely intoxicating.

    So with Tom's invaluable guidance, I settled on a final number with Gullwing (they were very easy and straight forward to deal with) and the car will be picked up by Intercity next week, arriving to San Jose about 10 days later.

    I'm super excited and very appreciative of all of everyone's input on this thread - thank you very much for the tips and suggestions!

    I was also very glad to have Tom on my side... Would most definitely not been able to do this without him.

    I'll post some pics when she arrives home. In the meantime, I'll be rebuilding the service history of the car which has been lost - So far I've made some good progress as the very kind folks at Bobileff have digged out records for the past 10 years that they've been servicing 63321 and I have some leads as to where to find older info... Just need to chase them down.

    Cheers!

    Ruben
     
  17. carguy246

    carguy246 Formula 3
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    Nov 8, 2006
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    Congrats! It looks great to me, but I may be biased as I have a 5-speed 412 that is almost its twin (Blu Sera w/ almost identical interior).

    Enjoy!
     
  18. simon klein

    simon klein Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Congrats,drive it as was intended....that's why it has a 6500 redline!!!
     
  19. brettski

    brettski Formula 3

    Feb 29, 2004
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    Congratulations Ruben !
     
  20. Scott Ales

    Scott Ales Karting

    Sep 13, 2014
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    I must admit it will be EXTREMELY difficult to part with my car. I have now driven it 3 times and am becoming very attached to it. It's like the perfect blend of the entire evolution of the internal combustion powered car. Doesn't do any one thing perfectly or the best, but does many very well. And it's not so much money that you feel uncomfortable driving it. It will certainly go down as one of my top ten favorites of all time.

    Enjoy your new ride!!
     
  21. rrbnut

    rrbnut Formula Junior

    Jan 19, 2015
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    Klaus Reichardt
    Congrads Ruben,love the color, enjoy!
     
  22. Macula

    Macula Rookie

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    Mohammed
    Congratulations Ruben! Happy to see everything fell in place and worked out. It's a beautiful car and enjoy it in good health.
     
  23. Ashman

    Ashman Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Congratulations! Glad that Tom was able to help you with the PPI, he is a great guy. I've seen him and his car at several car shows over the years and he is always willing to talk and help.
     
  24. Il Tifoso

    Il Tifoso Formula 3
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    Thanks guys for the well wishes and warm welcome! :)

    I can't wait until sometime late next week when it gets home!

    Ruben
     
  25. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
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    Woo Hoo! Way to go
     

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