Buyer Beware:Ferrari 360 Spider at Palmetto Sport Cars Miami (VIN: ZFFYT53A830134501) | FerrariChat
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Buyer Beware:Ferrari 360 Spider at Palmetto Sport Cars Miami (VIN: ZFFYT53A830134501)

Discussion in '360/430' started by gt1995, Oct 28, 2012.

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  1. gt1995

    gt1995 Formula Junior

    Sep 3, 2011
    498
    Rockville, MD
    #1 gt1995, Oct 28, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 30, 2012
    Although I have not yet found the right 360 spider 6-speed for me, I have gotten a lot out of the Fchat community and want to give a little back with this posting. As I have come to know, there are a lot of iffy cars out there, and I want to make one known to the community. There doesn't seem to be a lot of info out there on this car or dealer, so hopefully this will be of value to someone, somewhere, sometime.

    I have been researching the Ferrari 360 Spider currently listed for sale at Palmetto Sport Cars (VIN: ZFFYT53A830134501, listing links below) for the past several weeks, and have come to find that many statements made about the vehicle do not seem to add up. I want to share what I have learned so that others may save the time and headache.

    In full disclosure, I was willing to let some of the inconsistencies on this car slide if the dealer and I could agree on a reasonable price and I could have a pre-purchase inspection (PPI) performed on the car. However, after reaching agreement on price, I had the proverbial rug pulled out from under me when the "owner" of the dealership allegedly refused to allow the car to have a PPI conducted off site by Ferrari of Fort Lauderdale (who have been great, by the way) at my expense. The only reason given was that cars get damaged in transport, which seems quite silly given that FoFL transports much more expensive cars every day and the dealer lacks the proper equipment to perform a thorough PPI!

    Of the items stated so far aout this vehicle, there have been many apparently untruthful, erroneous, or inconsistent claims made to me and my wife by this dealership's staff. These include:

    CLAIM ---------------> FACT
    ____________________________________________________________________________
    Clean CarFax ---------> CarFax (provided by the dealer) shows damage in first year of life
    1 owner car ----------> CarFax (provided by the dealer) shows 5 owners
    F1 transmission -------> 6 speed transmission
    Clutch under 3k miles --> No documentation or evidence to support this claim
    Includes master fob ---> No red fob included or available (only one black fob and key)
    OEM wheels -----------> Build sheet provided by Ferrari dealer shows modular wheels
    OEM wheels -----------> Starfish wheels were purchased on eBay by dealer
    Yellow calipers --------> Build sheet provided by Ferrari dealer shows red calipers
    Traded in for F430 -----> Documents provided by dealer show car bought at auction
    Prior owner not avail ---> Other dealership staff claim ongoing contact and repeat customer
    Modena convertible ----> Obviously this is a Spider...

    This car is currently listed on AutoTrader and eBay (third or fourth auction listing) at the links below. The dealer also admits that they have had the car for five months and are anxious to get rid of it. Obviously not anxious enough to allow a PPI to be conducted on a car that has no service records whatsoever!

    http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=20850&endYear=2012&listingType=used&transmissionCode=MAN&maxPrice=89000&modelCode1=DB9&makeCode2=FER&modelCode2=F355&startYear=1995&makeCode1=ASTON&modelCode3=360&maxMileage=45000&numRecords=100&makeCode3=FER&searchRadius=0&minPrice=40000&listingId=301131109&Log=0

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2003-Ferrari-360-Spider-Convertible-2-Door-3-6L-/170930757632?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item27cc446000

    The dealer's home page is htp://www.palmettosportcars.com which redirects to http://www.autotrader.com/dealers/dda/index.jsp?dealership_view_name=www.palmettosportcars.com. I have dealt with Carlos Rios, Ralph Rico, and Julio (?) at their dealership.

    Please note that this experience is provided solely for the benefit of the Fchat community and is only intended to outline the facts of my research on this vehicle. Readers should rely on their own experience and judgement when considering this vehicle or dealer.
     
  2. djkling

    djkling Formula Junior

    Sep 28, 2012
    498
    Newfields, NH
    Full Name:
    Domenic
    #2 djkling, Oct 28, 2012
    Is it me or does FL have a lot of dealers and a lot of issues like this?
     
  3. 355dreamer

    355dreamer F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Apr 3, 2006
    10,476
    DC Metro
    Full Name:
    L.C.
    #3 355dreamer, Oct 28, 2012
    It's not you.
     
  4. gilly6993

    gilly6993 F1 Rookie

    Aug 20, 2009
    2,534
    Longmeadow, MA
    Full Name:
    Eric
    #4 gilly6993, Oct 28, 2012
    FofNE just told me that an FF they sold to someone down there somehow wound up in a few feet of water....the mistaken AWD with boat....
     
  5. JWeiss

    JWeiss F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 18, 2010
    11,374
    NYC and Long Island, NY
    Full Name:
    JWeiss
    #5 JWeiss, Oct 28, 2012
    I think you're missing a digit on that VIN.
     
  6. gt1995

    gt1995 Formula Junior

    Sep 3, 2011
    498
    Rockville, MD
    #6 gt1995, Oct 29, 2012
    Sorry about that! It should be ZFFYT53A830134501. I will see if I can get the title and first post updated too.
     
  7. Chiaroman

    Chiaroman Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 21, 2004
    1,677
    New Jersey
    #7 Chiaroman, Oct 29, 2012
    Great job!!!

    Appreciate the effort.

    Thank you.
     
  8. hifipj

    hifipj Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2009
    402
    #8 hifipj, Oct 29, 2012
    I'm currently looking at getting a Gallardo Spyder to join my 360. That same dealer has the lowest-priced G Spyder for its year, and it's been for sale forever, so I'd not be surprised if that car has similar issues too.

    SE Florida is like a different country to the rest of the state. And yes, SE Florida unfortunately has the deserved reputation of having a lot of shady sellers, and not just of cars.
     
  9. IDriveM5

    IDriveM5 F1 Rookie

    Jul 2, 2012
    2,675
    Central Ohio
    Full Name:
    Raj
    #9 IDriveM5, Oct 29, 2012
    Thank you for sharing the results of your research. Good luck with your search.
     
  10. PFSEX

    PFSEX Formula Junior

    Jun 30, 2006
    843
    Las Vegas
    Full Name:
    John Ratto
    #10 PFSEX, Oct 29, 2012
    These issues are what are known as 'stories'.

    In the case of this car, they sound like bad storeis.

    My advice - ignore the car unless you get a really great price. And if you jump in, be aware that it is likely that more 'stories' will pop up over your first 6 months of ownership. Factor them into the price.
     
  11. up4speed

    up4speed F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 16, 2012
    3,637
    Long Island, NY
    Full Name:
    Chris
    #11 up4speed, Oct 29, 2012
    It's not you.............
     
  12. anxpert

    anxpert Formula Junior

    Mar 4, 2008
    970
    Oceanside, CA
    Full Name:
    Enrique Mar
    #12 anxpert, Oct 29, 2012
    Overall not " huge " issues with the exception of not allowing a PPI.

    Some confusion arises when describing the transmissions on 360s' ...They are indeed both 6 speed transmissions : F1 ( Electronically Controlled Shifting via Hydraulics ) and a Manual " 3 Pedal " Transmission.

    The import documents on my car do describe the car as a 360 Modena Spider though.

    He did everyone a favor by switching out the custom wheels !
     
  13. euro_king

    euro_king Formula Junior

    Mar 18, 2009
    758
    San Jose, Jakarta
    Full Name:
    Jastien Weiss
    #13 euro_king, Oct 29, 2012
    Agree with this statement
     
  14. MVDESQ

    MVDESQ Formula 3

    Nov 25, 2010
    1,581
    Greenwich, CT
    Full Name:
    Matthew & Kristen V.
    #14 MVDESQ, Oct 29, 2012
    Any place that has that many lies should be disregarded. They did you a favor by not allowing a ppi at ffl. You saved money on finding out the car is junk. It is not just se fl there are tons of shady dealers everywhere as there are lots of uninformed buyers everywhere. Good luck with your search.
     
  15. climb

    climb F1 Rookie

    Sep 19, 2006
    4,866
    Atlantic Beach Fl
    Full Name:
    Stuart K. Hicks
    #15 climb, Oct 29, 2012

    I love Florida and love Miami but wouldn't buy a car from south Florida.
     
  16. crazylumpy

    crazylumpy Rookie

    Sep 3, 2012
    27
    SlC
    Full Name:
    Al
    #16 crazylumpy, Oct 29, 2012
    The Seller on Ebay has a big whopping 0 feedback... I'd stay away!
     
  17. djkling

    djkling Formula Junior

    Sep 28, 2012
    498
    Newfields, NH
    Full Name:
    Domenic
    #17 djkling, Oct 30, 2012
    Does FL have any licensed or approved Ferrari dealerships? I know not all exotic dealers are licensed by Ferrari. We have one here in Massachusetts that IS (surprising... who would have thought in MA we'd have a ferrari place?) a licensed shop, and you guys should really have a look at their inventory if you dont mind a little travel. They stand behind their work and are very receptive (if you saw my other post, 48hours into purchase and I found two issues that needed to be fixed, and they are taking the car back to fix it without question and with many apologies!).

    I called a few Florida places.... I just got a bad vibe every time I asked a lot of questions...
     
  18. Spider360Matt

    Spider360Matt Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2012
    595
    California
    #18 Spider360Matt, Oct 30, 2012
    I gotta agree here. From the perspective of a buyer...buyer should *always* beware. The reality is that with these cars even F dealers have challenges with proper accounting of the vehicle history and descriptions. Some of their answers suggest that they just dont know F-cars. The only gotcha for me is the lack of PPI access. To which, its an easy pass over.

    I dont think I have ever purchased a car (even new) where the primary motive of the seller was to sell it. And, with that as a driver, you will always see slight variations to history in the favor of the seller's story. This seems more par for the course than general deception (some of the answers are easy to see as wrong - that seems demonstrates misinformation; not outright deception). I think buyers are expecting too much if they dont assume everything that is communicated must be backed up and verified or referenced in a contract (due bills etc).
     
  19. djkling

    djkling Formula Junior

    Sep 28, 2012
    498
    Newfields, NH
    Full Name:
    Domenic
    #19 djkling, Oct 30, 2012
    And a ppi should always be part of the sale
     
  20. spieler

    spieler Formula Junior

    Oct 13, 2012
    450
    miami florida
    #20 spieler, Oct 30, 2012
    IN Miami you have ferrari maserati of fort lauderdale ( same owner as ny and long island DEALER) very serious and Ferrari maserati ( doing porsche; mac laren; aston martin and jaguar as well!) in Coral gables.
    No issues with both of them
     
  21. MVDESQ

    MVDESQ Formula 3

    Nov 25, 2010
    1,581
    Greenwich, CT
    Full Name:
    Matthew & Kristen V.
    #21 MVDESQ, Oct 30, 2012
    SE FL has 3 factory authorized Ferrari dealers. There is also a dealer in Orlando and Tampa too. That means FL has 5 authorized dealers.
     
  22. bnewell

    bnewell Rookie

    Jun 4, 2005
    2
    #22 bnewell, Oct 30, 2012
    Wow.......I was actually watching that car on ebay and thought about calling them.

    Thanks,

    Brian
     
  23. BrettC

    BrettC Formula 3

    Aug 13, 2012
    2,097
    Calif
    Full Name:
    Brett
    #23 BrettC, Oct 30, 2012
    I also called on that car...asked for service records...was promised them and never heard back....may they thought i was a tire kicker but actually in the market for a 3 pedal spyder.

    Blue or black...

    Thanks...my first post here.

    Brett
     
  24. fc2

    fc2 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Nov 2, 2006
    5,263
    Silicon Valley Ca.
    Full Name:
    Frank C.
    #24 fc2, Oct 31, 2012
    As you can see from some of the other posts, you've already helped a few people with this information.

    It's always frustrating when someone tells a similar story, but then refuses to identify the offending dealer or car.

    Thanks for the detailed post.
     
  25. gt1995

    gt1995 Formula Junior

    Sep 3, 2011
    498
    Rockville, MD
    #25 gt1995, Nov 14, 2012
    Despite walking away from the deal, I happened to be in Miami on a business trip a couple of days ago and decided to stop by this dealer to see the car in person. Figured I'd share what else I learned in addition to what the dealer had disclosed:

    - Dash and passenger side airbag cover leather are both severely shrunk/bubbling and will need to be taken care of
    - Black painted areas on inside of engine compartment on both sides have significant paint imperfections and bubbles. Anyone know if this could happen due to engine compartment heat by itself? Seems like it could be a sign of previous rear accident damage.
    -Difficult to tell, but seal around windshield appeared to be a bit misaligned and some panel joints nearby had potential paint imperfections and/or dirt buildup which my amateur eye could not determine the origins of
    - Battery in the car was completely flat (the car is in the back of the showroom and does not appear to have been moved in months) so I could not confirm and CELs, test the operation or condition of the convertible top (which was stored in the open position), or even open the front storage compartment

    Overall, the dealership staff seemed to know very little, and could not even get the model of the 360 correct (430? 330?). They do have a lot of nice looking cars on their lot though.
     
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