Buy, drive it 5 years, sell it for a profit.

Doesn't mean a thing. I phoned the Monaco Ferrari dealer when I had trouble with my 330GTC in Nice and the mechanic laughed in my ear. "We don't work on that old shaite!"

My classic Ferraris were always entrusted to my specialist, not the dealer. And it is quite logical that a dealer doesn't know as much as someone who has focused his livelihood on those particular cars.


Onno

 

The 550 is no longer at the bottom of the curve, it has appreciated 100% for good examples in the past 6 months (actually even less than that). Hard to find a low mileage example under EUR130k asking these days. A perfect 9000km example sold for EUR65k in Feb 2015....

The E30 M3 is also not there, hasn't been there for years.

Obviously, I'm talking about Europe here - it could be different in other markets.

My take on sleeper youngtimers:

E46 M3 CS
Ferrari 348
F355 Spider if you're quick (although it has already picked up this year as well, so doesn't quite qualify for bottom of the curve).
TVR Griffith (modern version) LHD (only ca 121 made). Still available for €35k but some asking €60k.
Lotus Esprit, any version.
E34 M5
E39 M5


Onno

 

Don't quite agree. Most expensive of the 24 Esprits for sale through mobile.de (German car advert site) is €55k. Most are between 35 and 40k. That is still massively underappreciated for the car that it is (or could/should be, I suppose. )


Onno

 

Granted, but what a wonderful 5 years at little profit will they be .

I expected the 550 to up years ago but not this early.

 

The problem with an esprit, like a 928, and for that matter maybe even a 348 is any appreciation will be more than eaten by running costs. So yes if you are talkign gross profit on purchase prie maybe. But any type of real profits should take into account at least service and maintnanance. Which means either you need low operating costs or massive appreciation. Any car you put big miles on will not appreciate massively.

A 348 would need to appreciate25-30k to cover regular maintanance over 5 years. i am assuming any car you buy has some needs as all ferraris do.

An esprit can eat any amount of money you can imagine, and its hard to tell upfront what that might be. Plus maybe alow mileage esprit will be worth money, but one driven for 5 years is unlikely to be.

An elise has already appreciated a bit, but these cars are condition not mileage sensitive. The mechanicals are toyota and robust plus we wont see their likes again. they are practicaly free to run and given their uniqeness will always be in demand. the car is going to cost maybe 2.5-3k to run for 5 years.

If you think a 328/308 will be free, once again figure 25k to run for 5 years and if you put a lot of mileage on will it have appreciated 25k over the next 5 years, maybe.

A nsx, its a hnda to run a unique machine and will appreciate.

An e46 m3, depedign on what you start with maybe 3-4k to run for 5 years, but over 30k miles its not really going to fetch a premium.


On the new car front, I woudl say if you buy a new z28 at the big discounts, before they are gone, soemwhere in the 5-10 year range youa re making money. Possibly the same for a hellcat. These are machines the likes of which we simply wont see again.

 

Perfectly said.

Some of these cars may continue to appreciate others won't.

None is at the bottom of their values in 2015.

Matt

 

I agree on the future climb of the Esprit and also on the 911 sc which has already started. Another not mentioned yet is late 70's 80's alfa spiders.

 

I love these cars, i.e. BMW M3s! I just bought a 2008 V8 manual and I love, no worship the car. It feels like more HP than 411. I was going to store it with my collection and only bring it out to play on occasion, but I cannot stop driving the car. It was cheap now and maybe it will go up in value. Who cares I am keeping mine.

I just wanted to comment on the Lotus Elise. I had one of the cars it was a sport. It had 220HP instead of 192HP. To be honest I could not tell the difference. My car had a plate on the passenger side that said #8 of 50 racing cars. I loved the car, sipped gas as someone posted and was epic as a driving experience. When I decided to sell it it was gone in days.

A great car for the enthusiast!

[Best

Lee

 

There is lots of independent shops who will work on 928's. Most of the mechanics with the Porsche dealer who worked on 928's when new are either retired or opened their own shops. It was 20 years ago when the last year of the 928 was made. Very few retail dealers will work on a 20 year old car because they have nobody that knows them. Even air cooled 911's, Porsche dealers will tell you flat out anything beyond an oil change, see an indi shop!

Not a dramatic rise in price, but the 928 does have a small cult following, that have kept the price stable over the last 20 years. I've owned probably near 30 928's. Enough of them that I was at my mechanics, he had 6 928's in his shop, and I once owned 4 of them! I have never lost money on a 928, even made money on them, but mostly broke even and that's with service.

I always do the water pump and timing belt, other then oil changes, so far I've had no other maintenance, o.k. maybe tires and brakes. I always buy them right (wholesale) and get my money back selling them full retail. It usually takes a few weeks to sell them.

I even had 7 at once. What's funny I always search Craigslist for 928's for sale and sometimes find one I once owned. Like this one: 1987 Porsche 928 s4
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Y'all are forgetting the M3 GTR

I bought my 2009 M3 almost two years ago, and expected normal depreciation but have been so far pleasantly surprised with how well values have held up.

These E92 M3s are pretty well bottomed out IMO. Only way there is significant depreciation left is if you're buying a near new 2012-2013 for top dollar. Like anything else though, the price continues to fall as you add substantial mileage and wear.

There's no real value difference between manual and DCT (at least not yet). The Getrag box is still one of the best on the market, and virtually maintenance free. Completely the opposite of the E46 SMG which the market avoids like the plague. There is a little discount on convertibles, and a very slight premium on cars with the carbon roof in lieu of sunroof.

I think one reason the values are strong is that it offers a tremendous amount of performance, similar to how even first and second year Nissan GTR's still command strong prices. Modern amenities, unique attributes, very reliable (touch wood), and relevant performance. No sacrifices to the new stuff save perhaps fuel economy.

I love the car and plan to keep it awhile longer. I don't expect to make any money, but at this point I don't think I'll lose very much either.

 

Agree with this. Market values usually come about for a reason. If 928s and 355s had Camry running costs, they wouldn't be so cheap relative to 911s or 328s.

 

Agreed. I don't think performance is the end all be all of any car, new or old. I think that's something many of us outgrow, frankly.

 

I believe the best you can hope for is getting back what you paid for the car. Take the 308/328 and even the Testarossa, all the higher prices have done is put more on the market. Supply on these is way above demand. They are not selling for the high prices. Same with the Countach. While I don't see these cars going down, don't think they'll increase in value either.

 

Well...while this may be true in some cases, I've had my 348 5 years and have spent +/- $7k on maintenance, including a major.

 

B6/B7 Audi S4 Avants with manuals. B7's are much more rare. 128 came this way in 2008 with 3 pedals and about 250 in 2007. Those will be the real winners.

Only 3 B7's came to the US configured like mine over the entire B7 production.

 

I wonder if some of these "rising prices" are mainly a results of govts expanding their money supply at a world wide unprecedented rate.

Then there is demographics. Baby boomers are starting to retire. Many want a toy they could not afford 40-50 years ago. They proably havr enough stock, bonds, etc. and may look to downsize their real estate (remember when people thought real estate prices could never go down lol)...so getting that car you always wanted may sound like a good idea.

Question: who are you going to sell the car to and how are you going to sell it (youself, auction, broker dealer)?

Now the cars i lust after cost millions now. Cant afford them.

For instance i would love to have a Porsche 550 RS Spyder. 78 were made. 125 hp and weighs about 1000 lbs. last i saw one sell at auction in 2012 for well over $3 million. Or i can drive our Boxster S with 300 hp and weighs 3100 lbs with all the high tech goodies and no repairs in 4 yrs so far. New $80k fully loaded.. $40k used. The 550 may be so valuable nobody can drive it. Or you could be a poser and buy a replica (yuck).

Cant afford a 250 California Spyder. Or i can buy a 458 Spider with a warranty and 7 yrs free maintenance for a fraction of the cost. And like the Boxster S i can actually drive it.

I expect i will lose money on both cars but have the fun of driving them. Works for me.

 

+348. Well cared for cars don't need a lot in maintenance and are amazing cars. Bad ones, on the other hand...

 

Just buy an Alfa 4C Spider....

 

Well hold on there. At 5'10" and 160 lbs, I just barely fit in the 4c. I have also driven an original Porsche 550 and it's a small car even for me. Lots of these older gents can't even get in or out, let alone drive comfortably.

Part of why I love the old cars is because of how small they are. Everyone fantasizes about driving them but they're not cars that everyone can drive. It's rewarding for those who can AND who can maintain them properly.

 

For me a proper sports car is topless. The wind in my hair (if i had hair), the smell of fresh mountain air, the wonder noise of the engine/exhaust sounds both behind me...plus i am 5'10" and weigh 200 lbs. entry/exit has to be doable.

We have an S4 and RS5 for winter driving. Both are faster than the Boxster S and both are slower than the 458 Spider.

Best

 

Just so that you know, the 4C spider that was mentioned is topless. Entry and exit could be an issue, though. It's low with wide sills.

 

Thanks. Will check it out.

 

The early Lamborghini Diablo can only go up, I think. 2WD, raw, analog, 200+mph, etc. The late Diablos are already very high dollar, but the early versions have plenty of room to go up.

 

Mercedes 190 2.3 16V? Uber low production numbers, most have been cannibalized or wrecked. Once maintained.....runs for ever. I know I can sell mine for what I paid. Condition and maintenance trumps mileage.