Building private race track in FL- Survey

Greg:
before you built make sure you get some sort of State and local approval. You will be surprised. The cost of building a track is more than likely cost prohibitive.

To answer your question:
It all depends on what you are building. How long is the track, what facilities you are putting up etc.
The concept has been tried here for South Florida a few times. I believe there is a market but it is very limited by environmental concerns and by municipal and state regulations. Also WHERE is a big issue. If you are in the Naples area you will be limited to the people on that side, if you go too far central and north you get too close to Sebring which is a major drag from Miami. When I was looking into it I came up with the best locations right around the lake, best South Bend area. Easy drive from West Palm/Broward, acceptable drive from Miami and Naples, Ft. Myers and even still acceptable from Sarasota area.

The cost of regular black top for parking area is super expensive these days. Cities make you put rediculous stormwater systems into the ground. Building the track is very expensive. You are looking into simple layout with natural run-off areas into several Millions.

 

I would work with several pro drivers and probably design a track that has curves from well known tracks around the world. You have to make sure you design something that works for all kinds of cars. I would also design a drag strip into it and leave the options open for a oval track, maybe dirt track. In the hillbilly areas of Florida you will find the dirt track racers.

I would not exclusively design it as a country club but rather a facility driven venture. Sell commercial space like the restaurant, the garages and exclusive access on certain dates. Basically built a half exclusive track.

I know Mara would be interested in talking to you. She is also looking to do something and will probably love to get involved.

 

Make sure you get a good design person. They can make the track both interesting and safe. I have a friend who built his own track for his house, and the fastest corner is a disaster, if you lose it there, you end up in his house. Not a smart design.

A 2.5 mile track will be very expensive. Make sure that the foundation is right. Sears Point (Now infenion) didn't have a decent foundation, since it had been built for one race in the making of a movie (Big Faust & Little Halsey). When they couldn't get the permits for a subdivision, it stayed a track. Without the proper foundation, the track would ripple on the entrance and exit of each corner.

Art

 

Art knows

he is a motorcycle racer.

Good to see you Art. Hope all is well.

 

id love a track with famous laguna seca turn, the corkscrew!
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Just FYI, there are two business models behind most of the new tracks getting built today. Number one is the "country club" model. Number two is the "test track" model. Both models, however, focus on revenue from track rentals. Where they differ is in fundraising.

In the country club model, the good news is that you fund construction by selling memberships. The bad news is that member use of the track will limit future track rentals. Because track rental rates to race teams or groups (like PCA) can be several thousand dollars a day, the country club model caps your potential income.

The bad news about the test track model is that you will have to raise all the money yourself. However, being in Florida, you will end up with 365 potential rental days. Again, keep in mind, that racing is a big business and all these teams need a place to test, particularly in the winter (hint).

Here are some other tips:

1. There are 2 or 3 really top notch designers. If you snoop around, I'm sure you can find out who they are. But, you will need to define what type of track you want before contacting them. For a membership track, a technical layout like Laguna or Mid-Ohio probably makes the most sense. On the other hand, having a mile-long straight could lead to some liability problems. If you are interested in a test track layout, google around to find the one in South Carolina.

2. Yes, I know that south Florida is VERY flat. But do what you can to create some elevation changes.

3. Don't cheap out on material. Once of the reasons that Laguna is such a great track is its billiard table surface. You should plan on at least $1MM a mile.

Dale

PS If you actually do this and need help with the insurance angle, send me a PM. I might be able to help.

 

yes, elevation changes would can help create an awesome track

 

EMS.......?


and where are you building it.

 

I like these couple of comments:

"get some sort of Sate and local approval" I'm a contractor and I've been there before. You won't get ANYWHERE without ALL the State and local approvals. Plus a project this size could require US Corp of Engineers approval and possibly a D.R.I. (http://www.sfrpc.com/dri.htm). You will need South Florida Water Management approval before the local folks will even look at your drawings. Get with a civil engineer and commercial RE attorney now, they are the ones that work with you through the permitting process.

"super expensive" compared to what? Concrete? Better check the price per square foot again.

"rediculous stormwater systems" are required by State and local authorities. You will have to install what is required and if it is expensive, that's the way it is.

I used to work for the largest commercial developer in South Florida. We had a guy come to us and wanted to build a high end Country Club go-kart track in SW Broward County on US 27. He had it all figured out, he knew CART drivers, had buckets of money from Brazil, and had a business plan that would work. But he couldn't get anywhere with the permitting and approvals process.

Moroso has remained like it is because they can't get the County and State approvals to enlarge it. I bet you could never build Moroso if you tried to do it now. You already have Homestead, Sebring and Moroso within a few hours drive which is more than most folks have.

I wish you luck but you are fighting a huge uphill battle.

 

Is the project really being built? If it is you're asking these questions way too late.

 

i dont know if i would use that in a small private track, where alot of inexperienced ppl will drive on
could cause alot of problems and possibly raise insurance even more

 

plenty of room up here and you could get some nice elevation changes.

 

yes, but theres no point in building an easy track, you want a track that tests the skills of drivers.

 

For a membership at a private or semi-private track that guaranteed a certain number of days availability, memberships from $15K upwards per year seem reasonable to me. I'd pay more, depending on how much track time you'd get for it.

As for a track layout, check out Le Circuit Mont-Tremblant in Quebec, Canada. It's where FNA hosts their Pilota driving courses, which I have attended. Apparently, Schumi referred to track as "the little Nurburgring" or something, when he drove it. It's small (2.65 miles), but very technical with 15 turns of all types. The north loop has elevation that probably wouldn't be possible in FL, but without it, it would still be an amazing circuit. The average width is 36 feet. The track record is 1:22.961 seconds, in a Dallara Judd.

Driving it in a 430 was pure heaven.

 

Well, good luck with it man. I think it's an amazing idea and hope it all works out! For sure PM me or keep me on a contact list when there are more details.

 

true, and i didnt say that, tons of things can be done to make the track more challenging im just saying if he doesnt want to be responsible for many unwanted incidents then i suggest not using this corner.... Laguna Seca is known to be one of the hardest tracks in North American, so y not take other pieces from it ?

 

I agree, I just threw that turn out there because its my favorite that iv ever seen.

 

Talk to Smokin' Joe, he eats and sleeps this stuff all up and down the east coast. Look him up at www. nationalprivateer.com

 

We need this BAD in North Florida. I would be willing to pay for a membership depending on location (relative to Sebring).

 

You were probably misunderstanding my points.
Yes you have to put what you have to put but the price is just rediculous right now. This all increases the price of the track construction and hence cuts into the possible profit margin or feasability.

There is nothing you can built right now that makes semi sense while all building materials shoot through the roof. Your construction cost on commercial is so outragous at this time that it simple is not feasable to built anything at a normal profit margin. Trust me, I know, I am in commercial real estate investment and development for over a decade. www.2ICT.com

Just want to make sure that greg understands the costs involved. Easy to believe that building a 2mile road is a simple task when it is not, as you know it.

 

i just noticed u own an NSX... i have one too
r u on nsxprime.com?

 

yes sir, dlynes is my screen name.