Brake calipers same as Alfa Spider ?

I sure hope the master cylinder isn't the same as well. I just paid 5 times that much for one that looks identical. I thought it was a good deal until I saw this.

 

Having one of each, I doubt it. The weight difference is substancial.

 

I'd be careful with the pads; a friend here installed Alfa pads in his car, and the brakes got alarmingly soft after a couple of laps on the track.

 

I currently have 3 Alfa's in my shop along with my 84 308. I have a few extra front and rear Alfa callipers around as well as master cylinders. I'll take a look tomorrow and post my findings.

Paul

 

Early porsche 911 for the fronts & 914 6 for rear(parking brakes are different though) factory rebuild kit from ATE for 911 6$ from napa

 

The front caliper is referred to as an A-Caliper in Porscheland. 911SC from 78-83. Very common pad size and don't be at all suprised if it is the same as the Alfa. BMW's and Mercedes use this popular caliper. It's the heaviest caliper ever put on a 911 (would love to see a 308 with S-Calipers).

The rear caliper is "almost" identical to the 914-6. The bleeders are on opposite ends and the Ferrari version has 10mm spacers to allow for the vented rotor.

 

For any pad you can buy different compounds, plus there are more Alfa Romeos racing around race tracks in the world than Ferraris ... so there will be an appropriate pad somewhere.

You can get competition pads for a Toyota Camry if you ask the right people so you can get them for anything.
Pete

 

As I recall, the front rotors on my alfa spider were solid rotors, so, I would guess that while the basic caliper halves are likely to be the same, the spacer may be of a different thickness (or not present at all).

 

You do plan on stopping the car right?

Good brakes mean everything. They are one of, if not "the" most important saftey devices on your car. Compounds can literally alter your braking performance (one way or the other) $0.99 pads on your Ferrari? Aaaaah... OK

Porterfields are the best pad I've found for the money.

Cliff, spot on. I've built these for Alfa's and they have no spacers.

The Porsche versions can be had for around $2-300.00 per pair. Not a big deal. There are two versions so be carefull if you look for spares in that arena.

78-83 - A-Caliper. 7mm spacers. Fits over a 20mm vented rotor
84-88 - Wide A-Caliper (or Carrera Caliper) - 11mm spacers. Fits over a 24mm vented rotor

One of my least favoite calipers because it's so heavy. A lot of Porsche guys replace them hence the lower price. Also, the M9 fasteners are NLA. They are a poor fastener design because they have so much thread engagement, especially troublesome with age and rust, vs. the small Ribe R6 head design.

 

If the genuine ATE calipers are too heavy, simply replace them with front calipers from an Alfa Romeo 75/Milano. Exactly the same caliper but cast in alloy, or if not exactly the same they mount up exactly the same, and fit, etc.

Alfa Romeo guys have been making this swap for decades ... there is a benefit from all that racing .
Pete

 

The ATE calipers for the Ferrari and Porsche have 3.5" mounting ears. The Alfa version has 3" ears.

I use the Milano Brembos almost exclusively for "early" 911 conversions (911T cars with the 3" mounts). They rock as they're only 4lbs. 6oz. compared to the 9lb ATE's.

 

The ubiquitous 911S aluminum, (as well as the "M" and "A" calipers) all have 48 mm pistons. Typicaly, the aluminum calipers require a 3.5 bolt mounting center. I am considering upgrading my bequeathed 74 911 with better brakes.

As far as "heavy", check this out: I weighed the stock 308 disc and caliper, (front) and it weighed MORE than the 14 inch disc and caliper from the F-50, (including the full floating hat and the custom caliper brackets.

The rotational inertia, however is a "bit" more;-)

Most pads are adequate - but- some squeel and/or dust more. Some are very linear in their stopping power, cold through hot. Some are bulletproof at track temps but eat rotors for lunch. Some don't work when cold/wet. Some will last two track weekends, some forever. Some cost almost nothing, (beware the old addage); and some cost a ton.

I have opted for a fairly linear, (temp/co-efficient of friction) pad of high quality, the Pagid R4s, (if memory servs) and am very happy with it.

Half way through track sessions when the 360s and 430s are slowing early for the end of straight turn, i am still hard on the gas - big smiles.

Brake pads may literally make the difference between life and death and if you drive even a bit hard, the money spent is well worth it. Save money anywhere else.

Seriously bent about brakes,
chris
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Read the post below it... they (Alfa Brembo's) don't fit. They have 3" vs. 3.5" spacing on the mounting ears.

The picture in the link are S-Calipers we restored for Max Sluiter. Those should bolt right on to a Ferrari and save almost 10lbs. of unsprung weight. They are cast of the famous 908 caliper casting.

With the rears the problem is usually exactly as you've stated. What to do with the handbrake. Not sure about the Ferrari's but the 914 and 914-6 crowd struggles with this. The minute you bolt anything on the front, the bias is thrown off. So... you have to do something similar to the rear. That usually means eliminating the handbrake. With mid-engine and polar moment inertia... a bias mis-match can be a DISASTER.

Love to see what's done in this case...

 

Hi Lee,

That question, "What can be done about the rear brakes" was my very first post - even before i bought the green car. I had noticed a lot of interest in 308, (and pretty much most other guys tracking ferraris, in upgrading the brakes.

My 74 911, which weighs 2400 pounds, has the same F 48 / R 38 mm caliper pistons - as the 308 at about 3200 pounds. True, the 308 has power bost, but the 911 has to be a lot easier on the brakes than the 308.

Anyway, after i scrounged the used calipers and discs off of ebay, i worked with Martin at Girodisc to make them fit. Martin found some 36-40 mm pistoned brembos, (same caliper brembo uses on their front 308 big brake upgrade), and some used 360 rear parking brake calipers. I bought new 360 drilled rear discs, 328 x 28 mm for the rear, Martin made the caliper adaptors and full floating hats.

Once this was done, i looked up a local CNC machinist to spot face and helicoil the front ears on the rear upright. With the caliper and disc now in place, He was able to reverse engineer a very slick bracket, (also helicoiled) to mount the brembo 360 parking brake in place of the rear stock caliper. The parking brake cable needed to be lengthened about a foot to work on the 360 P brake actuating arm, (see trial fit photo).


Even with the monster F-50 front caliper, the rear still had too much rear bias, so i bypassed the stock rear pressure proportioning valve and installed a used tilton lever style prop vaalve in the front of the car by the new Wilwood 1-1/16th master cylinder. Adapting that took about 1000 in machine work, (new-longer pushrod, pair of mounting ears, special nuts to secure mounts and a small bit of machining of the new mc).

Initially, i tried Mintex Extreme brake pads, but they were too hard on the discs when cold and they would not stop the car if cold and rain soaked, so i went back to the Pagid R4s that came with the used calipers and all is well.

Used components: all calipers, front discs and prop valve; new custom hats and 6 mounting brackets, master cylinder and steel brake lines. Cost, including machining, with me doing all of the assembly, $7000. Not cheap, but seriously bulletproof.

hth,
chris
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