Brake bleeding: what did I do wrong?

Yes there are many many WP haters and I totally respect Brian. I on the other hand have used them since the mid 70's with no problems. I'm not sure why I have had no problems and they do such great work for me. WP have been around since the 40's. Most lame businesses fail to stand the test of time. Somehow this business has been around 60 odd years. I don't know why.

 

I will be attempting to bleed my brakes today and after reading this thread I also read my workshop manual. On page G8, Air Bleeding (Fig.9) its says:

- Fill both reservoirs, bearing in mind that during the bleeding operations the fluid level must not fall below one quarter of the maximum level.
- Start bleeding from the front brakes.
- The lower cylinders of each caliper should be bled first and then the upper cylinders by means of screws A (fig.9). (From the diagram it appears that there is a bleed screw at the top of the caliper and in the middle on the outside of the caliper. So there are only two bleed screws that are used)
- Then proceed in the same way for the rear calipers.

This appears to be totally different from any other car I have owned and differs from what is suggested by others in this thread.

Any thoughts before I proceed?

 

This further supports using a Power Bleeder rather than stoking the MC.

 

...the bad news is I've moved to the NAWP (never again with WP) camp, the good news is that my brakes finally work...this was my 3rd try with WP, the first came back not pumping, the second time was that the brake piston would get stuck in compression (meaning that after a few miles from home, the fluid would heat and expand causing all wheel cylinders to lock up and the car wouldn't budge). I sent back the Master Cylinder to WP, they honed and put in new seals--and when I put it back on, guess what ? The MC went from too-tight to too-loose....leaking internally. I drove it for a few days and it was like walking on thin ice, wondering whether you'd come to a light or parking retainer and actually stop...

So I ordered the New MC from Ebay "Romaveloce" (aka OKP).. not cheap ($385) but ordered on a Monday and had it Friday. The replacement is a Bosch, not Benditalia. The body of the Bosch unit is slightly longer, so the exit for the front circuit needs to come from the left of the MC body (so re-bent the tube going to the balance switch).

What a joy, after futzing with a poor rebuild, to have brakes that can stop a 2 ton car...I'm a fan of buying new when new is still available for these old cars, and wish I'd found the OKP a long time ago.
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Bill, definitely don't get anything like silicon near the reservoir (you don't want anything contaminating the fluid). The reservoir should last another 30 years! Lee

 

Ah Ha! Just as I thought!

Yeah Lee, if it were new...but Geert Jan's reservoir was ultrasonically cleaned, it's still 30 yrs. old

Bill, Geert did mention that it is important to use the o-rings under the white caps to prevent them from cracking...I'm hoping you got those as well. In talking with Rocco (Fchat user name 'rock') about my caps cracking, he mentioned that he has run into this when they are tighted too much. I told him of the power bleeding problem I experienced & said that I did try tightening them to prevent the leaking fluid/air but to no avail (I thought I was being fairly careful not to overtighten them but I now believe this is what caused them to crack...of which happened over time). Since all this has happened, TRutland's now has a new reservoir complete (#108802) for $295.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Brake-Fluid-Reservoir-Ferrari-308-400-Countach-/140820019925?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20c986fad5&vxp=mtr

No one's reacted to the power bleeder thread I started,...it's a 1 man show! I guess everyone here either uses the 2 person 'old fashion' method or they have a shop perform these services (which is 'supposed' to be done every year). The only problem with using it on our period cars is that fluid/air ends up escaping from the reservoir where the rubber sensor plugs pass through the side/underneath the white caps...a 'real pain in the A$$'. I noticed that Lee has the later version reservoir (#119566) that was supplied on 'every' later '80's Ferrari
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ferrari-Testarossa-Brake-Master-Cylinder-Fluid-Reservoir-Bottle-/310463317801?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item48490e4729&vxp=mtr

Although it isn't period correct, this newer version will hold the 5-10 lbs. of pressure from the power bleeder so that you don't have to have someone in the car stroking the MC.

Your car is coming along, it's great to see your efforts realized in motion

 

I hope I shouted that loud enough
I remember using that stuff on a dash of an old 280Z & that dash cracked a couple of weeks later (in the infamous spots). The dash was vinyl & I was told that vinyl needs to breath (which Armour All inhibits). I've been using Mother's 'Back to Black' for about a decade & have not had the problems that Armour All yields:
http://www.mothers.com/02_products/06108.html

I have also discovered it works well on the yellow cadmium coated metal parts that are tarnished under the hood. Over time, it'll bring back the shine unless the tarnish has worked its way through the coating. I unfortunately didn't discover this until after I took some metal polish to my FI lines (the ends that feed the injectors) & took the finish off of them 'real fast'! I know a lot of you have tarnished & possibly pitted finish on your FI lines. I was at the point of no return so I continued on one of them & liked the results. I know, I know,...it's not factory, but they can always be re-coated later if I choose. I have since acquired another set of FI lines in the original finish. Got to admit, black & chrome has a look to it. Everyone who's looked under the hood are wide-eyed. Note the finish on the brake booster.

Oh, incidentally...to have those lines recoated, I believe you'll have to remove the old polyamide tubes & then have them refitted with Cohline or similar (the originals were Castello PA 11 Rilsan)...that's a whole project in itself. I've followed Verell's thread from the beginning:
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=186689
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If your package included all of this:
http://www.ferrari400parts.com/ferrari400partsshop.php?view=productPage&product=1&category=1

then you got them. When I saw this available some time back, I remember the necessity of the o-rings under the caps to prevent them from cracking being mentioned along with the ultrasonic cleaning process.
The fact that you needed a wrench to remove the caps suggests that the system might not have been maintained on a regular basis. If the caps were overtightened, they would have cracked. I remove all caps when changing out fluid to clean, visually inspect, check sensor free movement, etc..
As a side note:
I pull my fuel injectors at least once every 2 yrs, generally every year. I clean around them including the fat o-ring (with mineral spirits) as well as the rubber socket that receives them. I lube the upper portion of the socket as well as the fat o-ring on the injector with Mother's Back to Black. This not only allows for easy insertion of the injector but more importantly, the removal of the injector later on. I think the reason why we see man-handled injection lines is because these things were stuck & the mechanic didn't employ the use of an injector puller. I do not have such a tool nor need it, they pull out with relative ease...got to love that Mothers