Not talking about the gauges just the dash layout and design, the owner of the Ct had other Cts as well so he was familar with them and how they should run, the 4 valve Cts are much faster agreed
the Boxer initiated the term "Supercar" in the press I have many old mag articles quoting this and was Ferraris first car called this not the CT which was refered to as simply an exotic, the first generation Cts were not that fast compared to a Boxer Concerning returning fire comment thats funny you don't just throw a punch and run and expect no response we all know you are a lambo guy which is fine
Who cares what the magainzes say?. They are both exotic enough but you can't say that the Countach was the first car to combine outrageous looks with performance and set up new standards for how a Supercar should be. It made Ferrari step up on there future designs. As for the Boxer I don't know that much about them other than I want one. As for the last personal shot you took, First off it was my opinion, there's no point on flaring up a battle. Second off to get this straight Iam not just a Lambo Guy, I have as much passion for a Ferrari as much as a do a Lambo. I have as many Ferrari posters up on my wall as a I do Lambos. The list goes on, Oh and guess who is my favorite team in F-1? thats right one word FERRARI. Thats why I say all the time chosing between a Lambo or a Ferrari is like chosing between Jesscia Alba or Jordana Brewster.
If you wish to get technical, there's no more oil starvation instances in a Countach relative to Boxer. The Miuras were tricky, but, Ive owned 7 Countach, driven them fast (sometimes as far right as the needle will go :-0), and guess what? No oil starvation to report. Face it: Early Boxers are not better than early Countachs - just DIFFERENT. Joe BTW - What have comp cars to do in this discussion on street cars????
Errrr.....and your point is? Again, the LP400 dash is just DIFFERENT from that of the 365BB. 4 valve Countachs much faster?? Which Countachs specifically have you tested? From this thread consisting of numerous owners of BOTH cars, it is clear that YOU are making comments about the Countach based on a complete lack of experience with them!! Sure, you seem to know a thing or two about Boxers, but the more you comment about Countachs, its clear to all that youre spewing second-hand misinformation. My humble suggestion, research a little more about Countachs... Now then, what would you like to know?? Joe
You have "MANY old mag articles quoting this..." No doubt we will see the aforementioned items posted right here for all to read thus proving your point...;-) Almost EVERY classic car enthusiast I have met considers the Countach as the original Supercar. Maybe Im wrong, and it wasnt that way in the beginning....but it sure is now. Joe
I have Peter Drons book on the Ct and it has many old magazine tests on them, I seriously was considering a Ct before I bought my BB so did a bunch of research on them then as well. What I would like to know is how do you get out when they flip upside down?
Don't have a scanner but just one book I am looking at now called Ferrari by Godfrey Eaton published in the1982 with a forward by Nicki Lauda has a whole section dedicated to the Boxer called Last of the Supercars. What is great about the Bb is its rarity though and place in Ferrari history, Ferrari Spa is coming to where I live in Vegas to debut the 599 at Las Vegas Motorspeedway for a track demo and a big event all day, they are allowing just a few local owners cars to come and do a parade lap of course they wanted a Boxer involved.
Wow a book and some old Magazine test. Have you ever been in a CT? Ever driven one? Other on this thread own/owned both and they are all saying they are great cars just different. They are both great cars. BTW if the CT is so ugly and dated why were you "seriously" considering buying one?
Saw a dark blue lp400 going east through Danbury ct this morning, sounded awsome, any idea who it belongs to?. Sorry I was not in my boxer, we could have added to the debate right there. Fact is styling wise the CT occupies a territory all of its own, a street legal concept car if ever there was one, problem is it has some concept car drawbacks built in too. Anyway the CT this morning looked awsome form the outside, but I reckon that the experience droning down the highway at 70 was not really that great, a boxer is more livable in this regard. A boxer with modern rubber is a hard charger that can live on a track with 355 handily. It can corner with a 360 there really aint much in it down the straight. At a recent club drive my boxer could easily run with a 575 between 60 and 120 when we passed a line of traffic. Had we run further up the dial the 575 undoubtably would have taken me but I reckon that would be above 145 or so. True on a boxer you must be far more switched on and alert than a modern, it is a slow in fast out kinda car, but like a porche rewards the skilled hand. At these lover speeds a CT is much more of a go kart provided you only need to see forwards. A well set up boxer feels a bit more heavy at the wheel but will turn in exactly like a race car. On a boxed you can use its weight and slight imbalance to pivot the car into a bend advantageously but you have to really know the car, and once commited to a strategy the ability to alter the plan mid bend is extremly limited. In this sense a ct is an easier if less refined car to drive. As for speed, I had a lp500, the two valve carbd car. The boxer can definatly hit with a harder slug of acceleration, but above 150 ish the CT felt like it had more, however it was also unsatble above an indicated 160. Both cars smoothe out and only reaaly start to hit their stride over 85 or so.
Yes I have been in one, the tests from mags when the cars were new so they have merit concerning its performance figures. At the time I didn't consider the Ct dated which was a few years ago but opinions change, I don't view the lp400 as dated looking compared to the flare cars.
Aaaah. I knew it. Your research on the Countach extends to the infamous Peter Dron book - replete with inaccuracies and complete misinformation, in many instances. If your research had included conversations with the Countach's Chief Development engineer Bob Wallace himself (resident here in the USA), youd come to understand that the lighter weight, svelte frontal profile and thinner tires of the LP400 actually make the fastest in a straight line at 184mph, as Wallace recorded in standard cars numerous times at Fiat's test track. The Peter Dron test car was the 'infamous' Pier Luigi Martini 5000 Quattrovalvole (the F1 race driver), with a nicely tuned ("pushed" as the Italians like to say) engine....191mph! LOL. Barry Robinson's standard 5000 Quattrovalvole struggled to top 170mph, and ditto for most standard cars tested. So I can tell you that your research left a little to be desired, and a few truths to be uncovered. How do you get out when its upside down? Instructions: With ice-pick hammer, strike the windsheild several times, causing it to shatter, then with feet press remnants outward, roll out of damaged vehicle, light up a cigarette whilst brushing off peices of glass from clothes, and casually declare to passers by, "Not to worry, Ive got another", before deftly taking cover behind a large rock as the car explodes from leaking gasoline. Only to be attempeted by real men. Its quite simple really....;-) Joe
Oh, I thought you said "the Boxer initiated the term Supercar..." Now, youre saying it is "Last of the Supercars".... Which is it, or cant you make up your mind??? I say your overwhelming Boxer-is-better-than-any-car-in-the-world attitude exposes a degree of both arrogance and ingnorance (especially the latter), that is quite frankly FOC...and I dont mean Ferrari Owners Club, fellas...;-) The measure of a true kowlegable enthusiast is one who can appreciate cars other than the narrow focus of what happens to be in his/her garage at the time. Additionally, in the grand scheme of things, Boxers are not really that rare. Total production numbers dont warrant the car being described amongst die-hard Ferraristi as rare, an oft maligned and loosely applied term. Joe
Youve been in one then? And read a few magazines? Werent you the one who stated earlier in this thread that the esteemed Road & Track and other magazines were all meritless??? "R&T is a really bad magazine....the same with the rest of them"...Again, can you make up your mind??? Fellas, yet again, I say FOC....<<all together now...FOC!!>> By the way (and this really goes for all) this thread is really only about the pure early LP400 Periscopa vs the 365 BB, so in fact a lot stated may be redundant unless it applies to those two. Joe
When multiple magazines post the same performance data it has merit. The lp 400 that recorded the top speed you quoted was a test mule not a normal production car
Never did I say the Boxer is better than every car in the world its simply better than the Ct. Believe me I can appreciate other cars as I have them, just because I don't think the Ct is all you think it is doesn't mean I am any less of a car guy or knowledgeable as you would like to believe. Also believe what you want concerning your Boxer rarity comment, but Ferrari views them as one of their greatest cars, Enzo was surely very proud of it himself thats all I care, and i don't think their will be a Lambo invited to a Ferrari corporate event either.
If you are talking about the modified non-BBLM cars from the BB Nichol's Book, those cars can hardly be analogous to the factory stock production car. Those race cars had modified body panels, rims, tires, gutted interior / modified instruments, suspension, air-intakes, fuel injection systems, and radical exhausts etc...
I never compared the BBLM to the production car. The BBLM race car, is an entirely different animal from the production car. You would not compare a Chevette production car, to a Chevette funny car, that competes in Pro Stock drag racing.
A Boxer is not rare. - Neither is a Countach QV. An excellent example of either car, can be found with little difficulty. All original unmolested documented low-mile one/two owner cars, can be found forsale today. The Boxer was designed as a pure GT. Ultimate performance, was not the goal of the engineers. All of this information, is found inside the Nichol's BB Book. The last race on Sunday, and drive on Monday Ferrari, was the 275 GTB/C. Like the Countach, the Boxer is a superb GT.
I disagree on the rarity, chances are unless you are in S Cali you'll never see 2 Boxers at a Ferrari event, I know I have the only registered BB in my State as well, thats rare to me. Both cars have their merits and the car world is a better place since they made the Ct than if they did not just the Ct is not a practical car for me even if performance was the same with both as I drive my cars in a sprited way, the thought of flipping over and being trapped burning alive is not a good idea in the back of your mind behind the wheel, the equivalent of pouring a gallon of gas over your head and walking around smoking a cigar IMO.
The Boxer is not a member of the rare exotic car club with 2000+ 365GT4/BB, BB512 and BB512i being made...most of all which still survive...
This statement is correct. _______ J.P. When you take into account tens of thousands of both the 355 and 360, than yes, the Boxer is rare. At the last TXFCA annual event in Clear Lake, TX during April 06, my Box was the only one at that event. The Box is not rare, when you compare it to a Lusso or 275GTB. I have never heard of a Countach owner, trapped in his car upside down, waiting to be cooked. I assume most Countach owners, do not take that into consideration. - You can always carry a small 18K gold plated hammer.
