News

Boxer vs Countach.

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by Fan512bbi, Oct 12, 2006.

  1. J.P.Sarti

    J.P.Sarti Guest

    May 23, 2005
    2,406
    A Boxer clutch part costs around $1300, I can R&R the clutch in about 3 hours, very simple. $4000 is a complete rip off

    Try changing the starter motor on a CT you need to remove the entire motor.
     
  2. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 26, 2005
    20,691
    Fullerton, California
    Full Name:
    Jon
    Thanks Ralph and J.P. -- this is exactly what I was asking.
     
  3. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    May 23, 2006
    49,040
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    Aaah, there is an old saying that "If you have to ask the price, you cant afford it". This definately applies to the Countach.:) I suppose its like servicing an out-and-out race car. NOT cheap. And not simple. And who says 'cheap is better' as it seems you guys are implying? I guess you're saying that if you want an relatively inexpensive-to-maintain car, with no challenges to service or maintain, get the Boxer? If so, I agree. Only buy a Countach when youre up for the occasional engineering challenge and $12k clutch replacements dont faze you....

    Joe
     
  4. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

    Sep 4, 2001
    12,887
    Cumming, Georgia
    Full Name:
    Franklin E. Parker
    I had the clutch of my Boxer replaced in Dec 2002 for $2k, parts and labor...
     
  5. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    May 23, 2006
    49,040
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey

    Bembridge airport (Isle of Wight) 1983, MOTOR magazine got together a group of Supercars. They did it right and raced them over a quarter mile and timed them electronically. All the cars were almost-new unmodified cars provided by the concessionaires/dealers in the UK. All the cars were handed over to a team of professional drivers. The drivers raced the cars over a quarter mile. Then they rotated into other cars so each driver raced each car. No tricks. No advantage. Supervised by the Royal Automobile Club. Boxer (BBi), Countach (500S chassis number 112515), 911 Turbo (930), Pantera. Boxer provided by Maranello Concessionaires. Countach provided by Portman UK.
    Who won? Can anybody tell me?
     
  6. ralfabco

    ralfabco Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 1, 2002
    20,595
    Dixieland
    Full Name:
    Israel Beiteinu

    I have the receipt from the previous owner, who paid 4K parts and labor, to have the clutch replaced on the BBi, by Ferrari of Los Gatos in 04.

    I did mention that the service can cost less, and it can also cost more.
     
  7. J.P.Sarti

    J.P.Sarti Guest

    May 23, 2005
    2,406
    As mentioned by you and others not every car could be in proper tune, 1/4 mile is absolutely nothing lets see a CT run 24hrs flat out at LeMans, the CT is not a race car even Lambo said that its a GT car, you would need to heavily mod the motor to make one last a regular race, the Boxer engine design is taken directly from F1 technology that brought Ferrari the World Constructors Championship.
     
  8. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    May 23, 2006
    49,040
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    Can you tell me...?
    Joe
     
  9. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 26, 2005
    20,691
    Fullerton, California
    Full Name:
    Jon
    I'm guessing the Countach won over a 1/4 mile ... and then needed a new clutch while the paramedics re-hydrated the driver.
     
  10. J.P.Sarti

    J.P.Sarti Guest

    May 23, 2005
    2,406
    LOL:), then as the paramedics arrive the CT driver backed up over them since he could not see anything from behind
     
  11. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    May 23, 2006
    49,040
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    Youre right! The Countach (my first Countach) easily won the sprint, and its first owner, Lee Perry simply drove home. No new clutch was required and home was some 500 miles away...and I dont recall him being anything other than comfortable.

    Joe
     
  12. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    May 23, 2006
    49,040
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    Good one. I like it. LOL.

    Joe
     
  13. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2004
    11,655
    CT
    Full Name:
    Sean
    1/4mi means little, how the car goes round a track means a lot. The 308 with crap michelins did well, amazing. At high speed a boxer is going to be a whole lot more planted than a ct, at lower speeds the ct will be more fun. In fact above 150 or so the boxer is just going to hunker down through a bend while the ct will start feeling very light at the front. Anyway both really cool cars, edgey to drive, require skill and commitment to do well, too bad about the moderns fast but bland.

    Thgis thread has made me want a ct again, no wing please.
     
  14. ralfabco

    ralfabco Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 1, 2002
    20,595
    Dixieland
    Full Name:
    Israel Beiteinu

    You are correct that the Countach is not a race car. I assume from reading your comments, that the 512 BB/BBi is race bred, and ready for the track, where the 365 BB is not ?
     
  15. J.P.Sarti

    J.P.Sarti Guest

    May 23, 2005
    2,406
    the 365BB needs a dry sump IMO to be tracked or raced hard but that hasn't stopped many from tracking them hard anyway they don't have the more severe oil starvation issues a 308 may have, a BBi could be tracked hard to be raced it would need to get rid of the CIS. The Boxer was the last Ferrari road car to have an engine directly taken from the contemporary F1 cars in its day
     
  16. ralfabco

    ralfabco Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 1, 2002
    20,595
    Dixieland
    Full Name:
    Israel Beiteinu

    A Ferrari racing engine by itself, does not make a race car out of a GT. The 365 California, had the engine of a P3 race car. That car is a beautiful classy cruiser.


    Their are supplemental oil systems, modifications to the stock pan, that will compensate for a wet sump system, and allow a car to be tracked in a competitive envioronment. A dry sump system by itself, does not make a race car either.


    A race car is an overall package, with a gutted interior (for the most part), a full roll cage, major engine mods, racing tires, off-road exhaust, rim mods, lowered chassis, and aftermarket body panels etc... A number of racing components dropped in a GT, makes nothing more than a more visceral fun GT.
     
  17. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    May 23, 2006
    49,040
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    FINALLY got a moment to read it....some comments are due, I think.

    Craig my man, "she looks good on you" as they say, but dont crash it because I cannot find you another like that and I WILL NOT sell you the one I have ;-)

    The writer lists LP400 production as commencing in 1973, but it was actually April/May of 1974.
    He also states the car's weight as 2,347lb: Whilst the LP400 is indeed the "Lightweight" of all Countach variants, the truth is closer to 2,500lbs. Lastly he states that top speed is claimed at 196mph, but that number refers to the claim on the original LP500 - the LP400 will make 'only' an honest 185 in top gear at 7,800 in a straight line as tested at the Fiat test center and by Road & Track. Wallace will testify to that.

    In the peice's comparison of the 365 Boxer and the Countach LP400, readers will note that that the writer sums up in the last sentence with the proclamation finale: "HELL, I JUST WANT A COUNTACH"

    Hell, me too. Phew. After seeing the images of this shockingly pure road-going icon, I think I need a drink... a stiff one.

    Joe
    www.lamborghiniregistry.com
     
  18. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Consultant

    Sep 18, 2002
    14,945
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Having just spent the better part of last sunday behined the wheel of a 25th CT, and having just (about 15 minutes ago) climbed out from behined the wheel of a 512TR..there is really no compairison. The TR runs circles around any CT built bar none. It is so much more a drivers car then the CT.

    The Ct looks wonderful, like nothing else. But to really drive it, its a terriable car. Vision is the worst part of the car. You just can't see out of the thing. The enigne noise is dreadful..almost sounds like the engine is gonna come through the firewall at any gievn time. The noise level in the cab is almost unbearable, and the car drives like a dumptruck without springs.

    Would I have one?? You betcha..would it be my first choice of car?? nope..not by a long shot...But I still want one..figure that one out!
     
  19. LP400S

    LP400S Formula 3

    May 18, 2002
    1,221
    West Coast
    I think the Countach is a piece of cake to drive. Yes you can't see backing up but you just sit on the sill and it is easy . The seating position is great. My whole seat tilts forward and back for the correct agle and it feels and fits like a glove(I'm 6'3). Yes it is loud in the cabin but I love hearing that 12cly carb engine. Sounds awesome to me. But I am also the kind of person that doen't mind listening to rocks being kicked up while driving an F40. There is no winner to me just two very different cars and that's what I prefer.
     
  20. Steve B

    Steve B Formula Junior

    Dec 23, 2003
    521
    Naperville
    Full Name:
    Steven L. Biagini
     
  21. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    May 23, 2006
    49,040
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
     
  22. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    May 23, 2006
    49,040
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    I should say (to use your own words) that the LP400 runs circles around any 25th Annivesario bar none. Its so much more a drivers car than the 25th.
    I think you were in the wrong Countach!! I own an LP400, and I owned a 25th, and for the aforementioned reasons I no longer own the 25th.
    Then too, I think you just prefer the softer, more civilized, less-racecar Ferrari. Thats all. I can tell you that the sound of the LP400's carburetted engine cannot be described as "noise".....music would be a more accurate description ;-)
    Joe
    www.lamborghiniregistry.com
     
  23. Steve B

    Steve B Formula Junior

    Dec 23, 2003
    521
    Naperville
    Full Name:
    Steven L. Biagini
     
  24. ralfabco

    ralfabco Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 1, 2002
    20,595
    Dixieland
    Full Name:
    Israel Beiteinu

    Tom

    Comparing a 25th Anniv car to a 512TR, is not a fair comparison. The 512TR should be compared to the Diablo 2wd.


    Compare the 25th Anniv to a 89 Testarossa. Noise level ? The car is too quiet in my opinion.
     
  25. desmadronic

    desmadronic Rookie

    Nov 13, 2006
    1
    I am the owner of the 365 featured. I've owned it for 19 years and love it. the car has enormous torque, is easy to drive, although difficult to drive really fast.Regarding earlier comments on clutch replacement, i have changed mine myself, the most difficult part being the removal of the exhausts. then just remove the bell housing and the clutch is right in front of you! Adjusting the overcentre spring for the release mechanism is a bit tricky.
    I have a number of other cars but the Boxer is one of my favourites.
     

Share This Page