boxer market?

Agreed, dont see getting another ferrari, well maybe a daytona.
As the ice age draws to a close I am thinking emira, or GT 4 RS or c8 zo6, or maybe the Mc20 ad I have a hankering for a challenger scat pack. So one or two more new ice cars to add, and those Ill try keep untill...

 

Years back,late sixties early seventies, there was a cartoon in" Road and Track" or " Car and Driver". It showed a Mini Cooper screaming down the road being chased by the pollution police. He launches off a cliff and smashes to pieces below. Last caption shows people coming out of the woods and grabbing all the parts for their now illegal polluters. The same period I was being indoctrinated by well heeled professors that we would be out of fossil fuel by the year 2000. One year in the seventies where I lived we had 40 days where we never got a high above 0 degrees F. These same professors were proposing to drop ash on the polar caps to absorb sunlight. This was to prevent the earth from going into a new mini ice age. I **** you not. I would love to meet these soothsayers today and ask them what went wrong with the forecast.
Fast forward. We are the fortunate few. Get behind the wheel of your BB (Billy Badass) and drive. The future is now.

 

The 512 BB is the last analog Ferrari. Not that I would throw a BBi out of bed for eating crackers.

And black is the correct color.

Love them all! Only wish I bought one when I could have.

These are real Ferraris. First minute of this video is awesome!

 

I like the comment above, ‘I don’t see getting another Ferrari, well maybe a Daytona’. I think the problem is not demand for Ferraris, but demand for current Ferraris. I would not have any interest in any modern v6 hybrid Ferrari, much less a suv or electric model. But I too would love a Daytona.

 

Love Boxers, gave serious consideration to buying one at the end of 2019, but could not find an acceptable budget to price/immediate maintenance fit. Ultimately went with something newer but just as visceral.

My next car will be something new(er)...I can only make sense having two old school type cars.

Boxer owners are truly blessed.

 

Great video. Thanks for sharing.

 

In 2020, the number of people with a net worth of $1 million grew by 6.3%. The countries with the most millionaires are, in rank order, the United States, Japan, Germany and China.

Germany's 1,535,000 millionaires saw their wealth grow by 4.7% over the course of the pandemic. This is compared to America's 6,575,000 millionaires, who watched their wealth increase by 12.3%.

How is the Western world getting poorer?

 

There is an apparent inverse relation between a populations wealth and ability to drive, perhaps because operating machinary is more a "blue collar" thing. that inverse relationship is why newer ferraris may be "faster" but theyre ever easier and bland below full tilt where 99% of owners never go.
A BB requires someone who can actualy drive, controll a machine (not a nanny car), look down the road and think ahead. Prices are low because there is an inverse relation between that skill and wealth, a few anomolies excepted.

Somwhere BBs will transition and become art, and then what is required to drive one will not be such a barrier.

 

That red car looks to have Lm wheels at the rear. What a great setup, wide rear and maybe 215 fronts, thats catualy ideal for these cars where understeer is not the issue. Narrow fronts really lighten the steering, so much so that its completly differen t (in a good way) to a BBI. Wide stiff sidewall rubber on the rear tames the ebast imeasurably, so much so that you can have the rear come loose and correct, evn then that limit of rear breakaway is one unvierse furter out compared to a TRX..

It was also ineteresting to hear him talk about the shorter gearing on the 365, makes sense 7700 redline and less tq.
On a BBi lightweight flywheel, cams and pistons(higher comp) that motor is going to build strong power all the way to 7k. In the one I rode in where the mtor was still getting bettded in, from 3-5k rpm it pulled like a really good SBC. Add in a shorter final drive from Newman. Lastly 225 17s up front and 275s on the rear, or get some 15 in Lm wheels for similar effect. Then youre going to have a boxer that really flies and acclerates with he type of anger the earliier cars were famous for, while being able to handle well on twisties and with light lotus like steering to boot. Modern clutch and ac to round it out and its prbably the best blend of evrything that makes a pre paddle ferrai great.

 

Boxerman, I believe that is my BBi that you are referring to with the cams and high comp pistons that Paul built. I remember Paul telling me that a group of people were coming up to his shop. My Boxer was still there at the time. It’s an amazing car to drive and to see. Gets lots of attention.

 

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...love everyone’s sage wisdom and opinions!...I love my boxer!...I don’t exercise it nearly enough though!...one point that seems to be overlooked is that while the boxer was introduced as a “supercar” it never gained the worldwide appeal early on to cement its supercar status that all other exotics enjoyed as for so long it was a maligned “gray market” car so it’s always had to deal with these characteristics...boxer is a real “man’s” car to drive and most dont want to deal with this today...I personally enjoy the fact that it takes skill and effort to control it...even at the top of the market bbi’s were only $350- $400 at most and when the market comes around they won’t ever go past these figures...would I sell?-perhaps if I was offered stupid money as I’d like to retire-“work is overrated”...

 

Since when has difficulty to drive negatively impacted a cars potential value? I have never driven an F40, 288 GTO, Miura, 250 GT, etc, however, those cars can’t be easy to drive. Two different buyers in my opinion between a modern Ferrari and a Boxer. Not sure that I agree that everyone wants a new modern Ferrari and Boxer owners shouldn’t expect a run up in price.

 

What drives prices up are "collectors" not driver enthusiasts, collectors are influenced by outsde sources, very often the car media.

F40 and 288 fall into the collectable art category, so how they drive now is irrelevant(288 is 308 easy to drive and not that fast by modern standards) and most dont art ferraris dont get driven other than to show. Muira made it to art too, but for decades when a daytona was 150k muiras were 80k cause they were difficult to drive/use so less demnad and worth less, plus they had built in flaws that were only corrected at restoration.. 250 series cars besides dealing with carbs are easy and comfy to use and also all now fall into art. Time was not so long ago besides a swb and Gto you couldnt give the 250 series cars away, the regular coupes were being cut up for recreations and lussos were unsaleable at 80k. Froint engined v12 carbed ferraris became a collectable thing, even a 365 GTC 4 or queen mother, neither of which are particularily good.although irronicaly they're easy to use, are front engined manual carbed v12s from the enzo era, all boxes checked then, they and sound great, how well they perform is of secondary to no consideration. all the collector boxes are checked..Manual, front engined carbed V12 from a era.

The better comparison for a boxer is to a dino which sells for 2x boxer money, reason its got classic lines and is also easy to use/drive and keep, plus theyve all been restored so the buyer gets a like new useable car with known faults ironed out.

Boxers as others have said are he man cars, and you'd be advised to know what youre doing before pressing on. Theyre also not very entertaining or pleasant to just cruise , but when pressing on theyre pure magic, there are just not that many drivers who are up to it. To own a boxer you have to be really comited, and able to groove with the way they drive. Not fun going slow and clearly edgy at speed, which is endearing to the knowledgable who can exploit those traits just as some know how to drive an aircooled 911. the edge is also a characteristic that can easily punish the unwary, its certainly engaing.

Boxers will appreciate then when they become an "it" collectable ferrari, then how they drive, if theyre driven is irrelevant.. What makes it transition I cant say, but at some point every minor collector will need one, all the major collectors have already cottoned on.. What made a maserati 3500 transition from a 35k car in 1995 to a 400k car now.

The other thing that may make boxers really more desirable is the Newmanized boxer, ie a completly stock looking boxer, runing modern rubber for ride and handling with pistons and cams so the motor really screams + shorter gearing and diff carrier replaced so nothing goes bang. That will happen as more boxers start getting restored, it also means the buyer gets a like new ferrari which performs close on a modern but is way more fun.

The BB itself was never fully devloped by ferrai, the company having lots of problems in the 70's just a jag never fully developed the e type in the 60s. However these days all known faults can be eliminated and the cars woken up performance wise while still looking 100% stock. At that point a Bb becomes something akin to a 288 in terms of raw performnace, and its same era and beautiful. Once classic magazines do a road test of a redone boxer and "discover" the BB , its off to the races. "Why no ferrari collection is complete without the superlative boxer"

Untill them here's the quandry as a 2 boxer owning friend explained this am. Do you spend 150K on your decent running boxer to make it what it can be a superlative machine with plenty of power, or just sell the boxer for 200k, and throw in the 150k to get an 06 ford Gt. In the current market a redone boxer is still only going to be worth 50K more, so the math does not add up, but the experience does.. The Boxers time will come, but when is a question.

time we started writing some articles to educate..

 

well written sean

 

I must admit I find my BBi very easy to drive and it's very easy to get a good overview of the traffic through the windows. It nearly feels as light as the Dino 246 I often drives and it is certainly much more comfortable. I'm not a very strong man but even then I find both steering and clutch very easy to operate and the car appears very stable and steady on the road. What ruins a good car is often bad or missing maintenance. There is nothing worse than driving a car with a hard clutch, worn gearbox and rattling undercarriage, defective air condition etc. My car is restored to as new condition and completely original apart from the ignition system and exhaust.

Best, Peter

 

in the meantime, since they are not yet considered 'art' cars, i can still drive mine with impunity.....
like here in sicily .... in the Giro di Sicilia and Targa Florio

the market for this car will rise, and i see it cresting the recent high point of around $350-400k within the next 5 years.

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You hit the nail on the head, Peter. If a Boxer is properly sorted and dialed in it is a very easy car to drive. If you have experience with mid engine cars there is no difficulty in getting a rewarding drive out of it. When you compare it to its contemporaries: Countach, Miura, etc it is especially easy and rewarding to drive. Driving position, vision, controls, pedal position, gearbox, etc are far better.

I don’t see any comparison between the Dino and the Boxer - the Boxer is a far superior car in every way.

I’ve owned all of the above cars and continue to scratch my head about the value discrepancies. Of them all, I chose to keep my 365 BB because it is the best driving experience of them all, and in my opinion the best looking. Elegant lines that are timeless, but also feel more modern than the Miura or Dino.

Why have they not seen the values of some other cars? Partly because those that promote and make the market for certain cars have not yet pushed them to another level. The fact that not many have been restored to a top level to justify the higher prices is also a factor. All in due time in my opinion. Otherwise enjoy them as intended and buy now while you can.

 

I bought my BBi In late summer 2006.
Can’t see a reason to sell it.
I regularly have people roll down windows in all settings — Highway, stoplights, gas stations, car meets, wash It yourself, etc — and exclaim “that’s the most beautiful car I have ever seen.” Even peeps in aventadors and modern Ferraris.
And it is.
And last of the hand built flat 12s.
Driving it is engaging and demanding. And mastery of it is rewarding.

There are always faster, rarer cars every year.

 

As a late teenager I had a couple of pin-up pictures on my wall. I never got Ursula Andress but I settled for a 365BB.

Had I waited I might have spent less - but for what colour scheme?

While I’d like to see these cars recognised by the market and prices go up I’m not wanting to sell mine.

Why would I want to sell such a beautiful, timeless piece of design. I still look at it and think it must have landed from a different planet.

From the comments above it seems I’m not alone in my admiration for the early boxers.

 

I bought a 512BB in the UK last year - picture below. It is in its original Azzuro Metallizzato and had been rebuilt by Carrozzeria Autosport in Modena. It was a toss up for me between a Boxer and a Daytona. What swung it for me in favour of the Boxer was my dislike of the head-on view of the Daytona (particularly in the non-plexiglass version - and the plexi version kept reminding me of my old SM - all entirely subjective, I know). The Boxer was also helpfully cheaper.
I am based overseas but have still managed about 1500 miles in the Boxer and am completely smitten. Curious how the market says you can have 4 or 5 of them for the price of a Miura.

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citreon SM with maserati engine? great car at that time ! ! !

 

Yes - Citroen SM. Cool car. Sorry I sold it now but I say that about most things I have sold.
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Looked at the rags to see asking prices for boxers.
Seems theyre either low 2s or up intot he 3s. Hard to tell if there is an actual difference in the cars, and a BB is maybe 10% more than a BBI.
Seems one group wants to sell and another wants to make a market.

There was also one that did not bid past 175k on bat.

What does it take for the "collector" class to wake up to a boxer, we know those who drive get it..