Boxer Fuse Block Upgrade | Page 8 | FerrariChat

Boxer Fuse Block Upgrade

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by samsaprunoff, Feb 24, 2007.

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  1. PINNIN512

    PINNIN512 Formula 3

    Aug 30, 2002
    1,014
    California
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    David
    Sam, Please make a CDI module for our Boxers. You are the only (qualified) Boxer electrician for our cars :)
     
  2. CarbBoxer

    CarbBoxer Formula Junior

    Oct 7, 2008
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    Houston
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    PW
    i ordered my MSD modified for a 12cyl so that the tach signal would be correct. did i pay extra for nothing?
     
  3. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Veteran
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    Aug 29, 2008
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    David A.
    I also heard about issues with the MSD box.


    Ago
     
  4. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,868
    southwest germany and thailand
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    romano schwabel
    thank you for the info Sam :)

    so is the unit getting to warm because it is too near at the engine and in the engine room or is it getting too warm by itself?
    if first I would put the unit to a cooler place. if second I ask why people buy it when it is not working fine?
     
  5. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Jun 8, 2004
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    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day David,

    Thank you for your confidence! However, I prefer the term "ingegnere", as this is how Enzo liked to be regarded as well :) ...

    As with everything time is the issue... However, it is on my radar and should my replacement MSD annoy me and/or cause me grief then I will reshuffle my priorities!

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  6. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day Romano,

    You are most welcome!

    It could be the heat, but also a possible design issue. There are a lot of reports/comments, etc about MSD issues. However, not knowing MSD sales volumes it is hard to determine what is the failure rate, but also over what time period. Secondly, the failure/problems I have read seem to be from all types of vehicles and so it would be difficult to point to one installation style where the failure is most predominant. In my case the MSD started having issues after about 4 years and was related to heat (I am suspecting heat given the symptoms, etc). That being said heat related electronic failures are not uncommon. In fact, statistically if one can reduce the operating temperature of electronics by 30C, their lifetimes can increase by 10 times! As for the Boxer MSD installation location (i.e. the same sport of the factory unit), indeed, a cooler spot would certainly help... but I believe the issue is more indicative of something else. It could any one or combination of the following:

    - a component failing/failure (incorrectly specified or inferior component was used)
    - a electronic design flaw
    - a overall thermodynamic design flaw ... inadequate thermal dissipation of the electronics, etc
    - a mechanical design flaw... some components may be sensitive to vibration, etc that cause failure over time
    - perhaps a bad "batch" of MSD assemblies were made because of one of the above?

    At this point I cannot say what the issue(s) is (are) or if it affects all units ever made... or just some.... That being said something does seem odd given the number of MSD issues I have read... and usually if there is smoke there is a fire.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  7. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,868
    southwest germany and thailand
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    romano schwabel
    so best would be to put the box to a cooler place and also put a small computer fan on to cool it down also?

    I know the death of electronics in the heat :(
     
  8. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Jun 8, 2004
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    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day Romano,

    Placing it in a cooler location would not hurt, but it really should not be necessary for the properly designed product. Maybe even mount the unit where there would be airflow would be a good compromise... Hard to say what the solution is, as I am not even sure as to what the exact problem is. That being said, I would not go overboard with mounting fans, etc... as this approach has its own issues too.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  9. AHudson

    AHudson F1 Rookie
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    Jul 7, 2005
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    Adams Hudson
    Semi Off Topic: Sam, tried to PM you about 328 fuse blocks, said your inbox was full or exceeded something or other. Basically the computer yelled at me.

    PM me about those blocks IF you make 'em still. I just want a samsaprunoff product on my car. Is that so wrong? :)
     
  10. SFM5s159

    SFM5s159 Karting
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    Jan 22, 2014
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    Mike C
    Good question...did anyone answer this?

    Mike C
     
  11. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Good day Adams,

    Indeed, my PM is full... and I usually leave it that way, as I rarely check my PMs and direct everyone to contact me via e-mail... as e-mail I check often regardless of where I am.

    You are too kind with regards to my efforts :) As for the Fuse Blocks... I have not made blocks for 328's... only for the 308s and Boxers (and I will soon be making more 308/Boxer blocks). 328's (Testarossa, etc) use a fuse panel and not blocks. I could make something for a 328, etc but I have yet found a cooked panel that I could review to see what I could do. I did offer to do this for a few people, but I never heard back. So, if you now have a 328, sadly, I cannot supply you with a fuse related update ... However, if you like blinky and or very modern/contemporary (commercial) lights... well... I have some really slick LED lighting that I will soon be releasing :) ... and are (forgive the pun) light years of what is currently available.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  12. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Good day Mike,

    I do not know if anyone did... If it was a MSD 6A ... then the tach signal for a 12 cylinder car works right out of the box.

    I believe you have to get MSD to modify the unit for the rev limiter functionality (i.e. the 6AL, etc).

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  13. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Jun 8, 2004
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    Good day All,

    Just an update to let you know that I have been working on this on the periphery. I finally connected with my Machinist and he says no problems for me to bug him to CNC some blocks! It took a while to connect, as they (and virtually all the machine shops in our City and surrounding areas) are extremely busy... much more than anyone can imagine. For example, there is a machine shop in a rather smaller-ish town (say 10000 people) that has full robotic manufacturing/welding, etc and they do well over $100M in sales... it is truly amazing.... anyway... I digress... I will be meeting with my machinist this weekend and so I will have a better idea of what his schedule is like and when I can get him to make some additional blocks. Once I do, I will report back.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  14. Chayanin

    Chayanin Rookie

    Jan 12, 2011
    19
    Sam, if you happen to produce some more fuse box for 308 GTB model year 1980 carb car dry sump Euro Spec. Please let me know. I would love to have them.
     
  15. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Good day Chayanin,

    The variances between the blocks is limited to three styles (if I remember correctly) and only towards the fusing and bussing and not the mechanical fitment. When I designed up the electrical portion of the blocks I designed each fuse portion for the worst case/ largest fuse size component... just to be on the safe side, but also to keep the design as generic as possible.

    Mechanically, the white and black blocks are virtually the same... except that the "keying" for the cover is different. Since the covers include both the fuse use and size they offer a quick user resource should a fuse need to be corrected and/or replaced. Thus I assume Ferrari knew this and did this "keying" to try and minimize incorrect fuse replacement, etc.

    Once I get all of the manufacturing details sorted, I will post up a notice to see who all wants a set of blocks so that I can have enough made.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  16. NoGoSlow

    NoGoSlow Formula Junior
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    Jul 29, 2014
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    Mark Jacks
    Sam, following with great interest... any progress on mfg details since July? I'm thinking about giving my 1975 308-GT4 some TLC over the winter months, and your fuse block design is tempting.

    One question: My OEM blocks have flat spades instead of the angled approach that both you and Birdman have taken. Can your blades be bent back to horizontal?

    My car came with one OEM and one Birdman block installed, but the latter doesn't appear to fit back into the OEM opening... unless I bend the blades flat. I don't feel like experimenting since it's working well, but I'd like to correct it if I start digging around in there.
     
  17. NoGoSlow

    NoGoSlow Formula Junior
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    Sam, checking back... any more thoughts about another turn of the crank? I really like the way you addressed fuse block design issues and would like to go with your solution if at all possible.

    All the best, Mark
     
  18. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    #193 samsaprunoff, Feb 12, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Good day Mark,

    My apologies for not responding before, but I have been overwhelmed with work and I have not been on here too much...

    That being said, yes, I will be making some more blocks. In fact I received the printed circuit boards last week... check out the pic... notice the gold plating? Yes that is real gold plated to the copper! Nothing is too good for our machines I say :)

    I also received the block material and so I just need to cut it down and deliver it to my machinist for fabrication. Then PCB assembly, retention pin fabrication, and then final assembly and test. When will the blocks be ready? Probably in the next month or two... most likely near the end of the 2nd month, as I am swamped with a number of new product releases (wireless lighting controller, etc) and customer projects.

    Cheers,

    Sam
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  19. NoGoSlow

    NoGoSlow Formula Junior
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    Thanks for the update, Sam. I started my career in PWB manufacturing for IBM, and currently do workstation development for another tech giant. I think your design is spot-on for this use case, and I'm eager to get in the queue for a pair of blocks!

    Rgds, Mark
     
  20. SFM5s159

    SFM5s159 Karting
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    Jan 22, 2014
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    Mike C
    How does one get on the "list"!?

    Thanks,

    Mike C
     
  21. wlanast

    wlanast Formula 3
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    Jan 9, 2007
    1,177
    Santa Ana,California
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    William
    I take great comfort knowing that I have a SS fuseblock in my BB, installed 8 years ago. Original sitting in a drawer in pristine condition, as it was barely used. As it should be considering the original is of such a poor design.

    Sam is one of the hidden gold nuggets participating on our forum. But he is taking that "gold" thing a little too literally, lol! Well done, Sam :)
     
  22. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Jun 8, 2004
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    Good day Mike,

    There is no "list"... I learned my lesson from the first time I made them, as a number of people committed and then bailed when they were ready. That being said, there were some who wanted me to notify them once I make more blocks and so they will get opportunity to purchase. I will, however, post up when the blocks are available and whoever wants a set can speak then.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  23. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Jun 8, 2004
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    Good day Mark,

    Very cool... did you design PCB/PWB or did you actually do the fab of them? Regardless, is it not amazing how the PCB/PWB has changed in terms of the reduced cost, features, functionality, and speed with which they can manufacture PCBs? Talk about a significant technology leap in just last 5-7 years! ... in PCBs, but in actuality in almost all areas of electronic design and manufacturing... Given that you mention that you are in workstation development, you know this all too well!

    Thanks again for your interest and compliments! The design can certainly be improved and I have done so on this next batch. Ideally if the volumes were larger I would migrate the base block component to an injection molding process. Unfortunately, it is tough to recover the NRE on such small volumes... However, there is something to be said and appreciated when a item is comes of a mill. To some there is a certain "charm" with edge sharpness and crispness that is provided by a milled process.

    As I said, I will post up when they are ready.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  24. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Jun 8, 2004
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    Good day William,

    You are too kind! Thank you very much for the kudos... Now, where do I mail the "appreciation " cheque :)

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  25. NoGoSlow

    NoGoSlow Formula Junior
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    Jul 29, 2014
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    Back in the 1980s, I was hired as part of a team that built a $500M PCB/PWB manufacturing plant here in Austin. That evolved into development of design and manufacturing processes for surface mount technologies. From there, I moved into system design roles, spanning the range from tablets to servers.

    It's been a fun ride, but it has also been sad watching the manufacturing and design roles move to lowest-cost countries while much of that skill set has atrophied in places where it was first invented. The plant that we built was demolished after a short 20 year life, in order to make room for retail, restaurant, and residential use. The circle of life. :)

    The pendulum has started to swing back in recent years, so it will be interesting to see the world our kids and grandkids inherit. My new goal is to preserve one little Ferrari so they can know what life was like back in the petrol age.
     

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