"Bitsa/Re-Creation" with real OEM/NOS parts. | FerrariChat

"Bitsa/Re-Creation" with real OEM/NOS parts.

Discussion in 'General Automotive Discussion' started by JF308, Dec 22, 2015.

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  1. JF308

    JF308 Formula 3

    Jan 17, 2007
    1,263
    Boulder, CO
    Full Name:
    John Feeney
    I have heard them called "Bitsa" or "Re-Creation" versus reproduction/replicas.

    What is the opinion of the crowd if you could professionally build a vintage Ferrari or Mercedes with Everything to factory spec sans serial number? How would this affect collectibility and/or value?
     
  2. JF308

    JF308 Formula 3

    Jan 17, 2007
    1,263
    Boulder, CO
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    John Feeney
    113 page views and NO COMMENTS????

    I know that there are opinions out there. Lets have 'em.

    If you could build a 288GTO or Mercedes-Benz Gullwing with OEM/NOS parts but no title/serial number -- would you do it?
     
  3. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    May 27, 2004
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    Sean
    Ok i'll dive in.

    A Bitsa is a car made out of mostly origional period pieces that came off various no longer existing cars, maybe the bodywork is new, somehtign no big deal from a era when cars wnet to coacbuilders and manufacturers really built chassis and engines. Most Bugatti are today Bitsas..

    A reacreation is a new build car to exact or close on exact period specs, a reproduction is the same.

    A replica is a car that bears a a passing visual resemblance to a period car, but is more of a silouhette than any serious recreation.

    Recreations fall into various categories. Some are built by cutting a lesser car from the same manufcaturer so carry a period chassis plate, Others are built using new pieces in entirety. Some are licensed by the type holders, or made by origional manufactuers and have a certain legitimacy attached, others are not, but may weel be exceptional cars.

    So is the car a chop, then it has chasis plate, or is it a licensed recreation in which case the type holder has blessed it. In either case are they FIA sanctioned as period correct.

    The first big time recreations were the favre GTOs in the 80s. They were exact in every way, and are considered collectable in their own right, these cars though were never sanctione by ferrari. More recently Allegretti makes new old ferraris, these too are nut and bolt true to origional.

    In the late 80s aston sanctioned 4 more DB4 zagatos, these were built off what were then scrap DB4s, RS williams reputedly did the work and made a few extra, these williams cars are not santuioned by aston so are worth less than a sanction 2 zagato althouigh they are exactky the same, and carry some legitimacy as they are so "correct". Last year a sanction 2 zagato sold for over $3million, so these are not repilcas.

    The issue with the earlier recreations is that they were made by chopping up a lesser car, or destroying a priceleess artifact in the modern view. Today this is frowned upon as a practice. Although that did not stop one company from chopping a period ferrari can am car and turning it into a P4, money talks..

    Today though there are numerous companies that can make a recreation without chopping an old car. Lynxx makes perfect jaguar Dtypes and Xkss. Chevron or lola will build you your period racer of choice. Jaguar itself has just built 4 new Etype lighweights. Pur sang does bugattis and pre war alfas. There are two comapnies doing licensed GT40s. Build any of these correctly and the FIA sanctions them to race in historics, although some events may still ban them. So for 200-600K yopu can geta new build recreation from the above companies.

    In the USA people tend to be snobby about recreations, perhaps because here there is more emphais on value, posessing and showing compared to europe where the enjoyment comes through vigorous use.

    Its curious the attitudes because many a well known race car has been crashed and burned enough times that what is sold today is effectively a recreation with a period data plate.

    We see some cars fully intact from period fetching higher prices than the same car which has been "rebuilt" recently, and the rebuilt car fetchign a higher price than a new build which is exactly the same only missing the period data plate.

    There is someone in hawaii who posts on fchat who is building a gullwing out of NOS parts, looks great.

    As to a 288 GTO, what would you start with? Apprently the body panels are still avialable from the origional molds, would you modify a 308 frame?, if you did it would carry a ferrari chassis plate and horsies. The 288 motor was no pwerhouse, would you copy it exactly, or use a turboed 360 motor.

    Since it not really origional why not just use a 488 motor.

    Nut and bolt copies or toolroom recreations have a price above regular recreations, not sure where a 288 would fit. But for under 500k probably 300k you could build a very acurate 288, however in the current market my opinion is it would be worth what a moded 308 is worth 50-100k. Of course done really rigth and with the right publicity such a 488 powered 288 could be viewed like a singer porche, and you know what those go for.

    As to old ferraris, well ferrari guards its design copyrigths pretty well. Its one of the reasons that the route to a ferrari recraetion starts with a chopping an existing lesser car, then its just a rebody, its still a ferari has a dtata plate and you as the own it are free to do as you wish.

    All that being said, older ferrari were artisanal products, today pretty much every piece inclkuding engine blocks and transmsision cases is avialble new build for the enzo era cars, so there is no technical reason to chop an older car.

    my guess is allegreti will be happy to build you your ferrari of choice for a million or more, over a decade it will probably fetch its build price and slowly apprecaiet from there, simply because building more would be so much more expensive with inflation.
     
  4. JasonMiller

    JasonMiller F1 Rookie
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    Jul 16, 2004
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    Jason Miller
    John post this question, or move the thread to the Vintage (recreation and non period body) section of Fchat, I bet you will be more feedback.

    Hope all is well
    Jason
     
  5. JF308

    JF308 Formula 3

    Jan 17, 2007
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    John Feeney
    Thanks Jason.

    Didnt know that sub-forum existed. Will re-post.
     

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