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Bernie Speaks

Discussion in 'F1' started by 375+, Jan 6, 2021.

  1. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    7,552
    Casrs from "way back when" looked like they were being driven with teh driver holding on for dear life.

    If you put the current cars across from their predicessors, the proportions are simply out of place. Too long, too heavy, too "gooped up".......

    But a lot of the cars {Ferrrari, Hass,...} look overdamped wile the Mercs look tremendously stable because they don't bounce on {bumps, potholes, kerbs,...} whereas the lesserlings do.
     
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  3. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Promoter vs rule makers are two different functions.
     
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  4. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 World Champ
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    Judicial auction: Ecclestone wins Briatore's Force Blue yacht

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    The entrepreneur's boat, seized during a tax evasion investigation, passes into the hands of the former owner of Formula 1 for about 7.5 million

    Bernie Ecclestone is the new owner of Force Blue, the super luxurious yacht seized in 2010 from Flavio Briatore. The former patron of F1 was awarded the judicial sale ordered last December 31st by the Court of Appeal of Genoa following the seizure of the boat which took place during an investigation for tax evasion of 3.6 million euros on the VAT on import.

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    Shell company
    According to the prosecutors, Briatore had fictitiously registered the Force Blue to a shell company based in the Cayman Islands and then used it as a simple "tenant", thus avoiding paying the tax on fuel. This accusation had resulted in a sentence of 18 months on appeal, prescribed following an annulment with postponement by the Supreme Court, however, leaving the seizure of the boat still active.

    The Force Blue
    -
    With an estimated value of about 20 million euros at the time of detention, the yacht was purchased by the former owner of F1 at the "advantageous" price - everything is relative - of 7 million and 490 thousand euros, a slightly higher figure. at the auction base set at 7 million euros. In recent weeks, the three instances and the urgent appeal, both in criminal and civil matters, by Briatore's lawyers in order to block the auction had not had any effect. The Italian entrepreneur even offered to pay all the expenses related to the storage of the yacht, but the Court of Appeal decided to start the sale of the vessel because it was at risk of deterioration due to the "forced stop".

    During 2019, Force Blue was able to cover its expenses thanks to a charter activity carried out under the aegis of the state, but the current crisis caused by the pandemic has no longer made this activity possible, making the management and uneconomic maintenance of the vessel. This allowed the judges to apply the rule that provides for " to sell movable assets subject to seizure if they cannot be administered without danger of deterioration or significant diseconomies ". An almost "in extremis" sale if we consider the fact that the judgment of the Supreme Court, expected for early February, could have canceled the seizure of the Force Blue, but the judgment was subsequently postponed to next 9 June 2021.


    The two Tycoons
    -
    Flavio Briatore and Bernie Ecclestone are "longtime" friends. A friendship that dates back to the days of the Benetton and Renault Formula 1 teams. Not only friends, but also business partners when, in 2007, they took over the Queens Park Rangers Football Club, an English football team that was playing in the second division at the time. Experience then closed in 2010 after covering the 15 million debts of the London team.


    https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=https://www.gazzetta.it/Auto/28-01-2021/bernie-ecclestone-si-aggiudica-force-blue-flavio-briatore-400190633095.shtml&prev=search&pto=aue
     
  5. SimCity3

    SimCity3 Formula 3



    Bernie can now sell it to Flavio for 10m
     
  6. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    7,552
    Thereby Brio keeps his yacht for less than it would have taken to pay his taxes..........
     
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  8. SimCity3

    SimCity3 Formula 3


    Precisely.
    Job done !
     
  9. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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    In march 2011 or 2012 I saw that yacht in Monaco harbor...and recognized Bernie on it paying a social visit.
     
  10. Peter Tabmow

    Peter Tabmow Formula Junior

    Nov 10, 2010
    471
    If you say so. Given that I was sacked by Flav back in the day for refusing to do something illegal, I'd have to disagree....
     
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  11. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    6,498
    Without getting into the details, that I suppose should not be disclosed here, what was your job at Benetton (or Renault)?
     
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  13. Peter Tabmow

    Peter Tabmow Formula Junior

    Nov 10, 2010
    471
    PM sent
     
  14. ylshih

    ylshih Global Moderator
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    Yes, it's P&R. You could tell before it was even posted, but it was confirmed by the number of posts that it sparked that violated or had to tiptoe to avoid getting into P&R.

    You know, we just had a discussion in the mod forum about users who make posts that violate the rules with a disclaimer "Oh, if it's not OK, then just delete it". We were all annoyed by this type of behavior because it generally causes problems that still requires cleanup. This is a variation on the same behavior. If you were are actually uncertain, you could have sent the link to Andrew via PM first to ask your question and not have the result of triggering 15 posts that had to be deleted.
     
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  15. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 World Champ
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    Copy that. I send the post to you guys first.
     
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  16. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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    Flatulo Bribe a door.
     
  17. Peter Tabmow

    Peter Tabmow Formula Junior

    Nov 10, 2010
    471
    You're getting warm...
     
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  18. WPOZZZ

    WPOZZZ F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2012
    5,102
    Honolulu, HI
    Wasn't the tax he evaded €3.6 million?
     
  19. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    7,552
    Bernie will sell it back more than covering his capital loan.....
     
  20. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Refit on a neglected yacht of that size will exceed 3.6 million by some margin...
     
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  21. SPEEDCORE

    SPEEDCORE Four Time F1 World Champ

    Jul 11, 2005
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    Toe Knee
    Correct. Bernie likes to play both sides.
    Exactly.

    Agreeing with william twice in one thread I feel like my current avatar :p :D

    Only the Turbo 4.
    He told journalists in Australia he is “anti, anti, anti, anti moving into this small turbo four formula.”

    He was against the Turbo 4, V6 was the compromise they made. 2nd story just saying he doesn't like the sound doesn't add anything.


    Bernie is a member of the FIA and had a seat on the F1 Commission since the 1st Concorde Agreement (circa 1981). You mention in another post he is only the "promoter" but he didn't start as a promoter he was a team owner and the boss of FOCA which represented the teams. The whole point of the Concorde Agreement was so the FIA couldn't change the rules on a whim and required the teams (FOCA) to be in agreement.

    With the Concorde Agreement in place the rules had to be voted on via the F1 Commission, up till 2016 votes had to be unanimous, in other words if Bernie didn't want the V6's he had the power to stop it from happening.

    When it changed to majority vote in 2016 it was 6 votes FOM, 6 votes FIA and 6 votes to the top teams (1 vote each) plus the Ferrari veto.

    2011: https://www.newsonf1.com/mobile/2011/news/Jun/article_F1_Commission_agrees_V6_engine_rules_for_2014.html

    Ecclestone is arguing that Todt improperly introduced the four-cylinder rules without first going to the F1 Commission, and the whisper on Wednesday is that the body has now "unanimously" rubber-stamped an alternative.


    He was only against Turbo4 which funny enough he was able to vote off ;) some closed doors politics in play that may have forced him to compromise but if he was really against it we wouldn't have V6's today.

    I honestly doubt he really gave a **** about the Turbo 4 and was just pissed off that Todt was trying to change the rules outside the F1 Commission which is where he held the power.

    Every F1 rule you don't like in the sport is probably thanks to Bernie. He made a lot of people rich so they let him do what he wanted. Even Ferrari rarely used their veto not to oppose Bernie.
     
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  22. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Yes he had a seat...doesn't mean he voted for these engines. If the choice was I4 or V6, both turbo hybrid, he simply voted for the lesser of 2 evils.

    Back in 2007 he was against the V8 hybrid with KERS
    https://www.news24.com/Wheels/Bernie-slams-F1s-hybrid-plans-20070926

    2013 he warns against the V6 Hybrid having the opposite effect likely (rising cost) and engines won't sound good. Yes he says he make a last moment change to keep the V8's...''the rules have already been made''. Reads like he's not a fan.
    https://motorsports.nbcsports.com/2013/04/07/ecclestone-wary-of-new-v6-engines/comment-page-1/

    And finally, in 2014 before a single session was driven, he is once again vocally against the V6 turbo. Asked Ferrari to use their Veto as well.
    https://www.racefans.net/2014/01/17/ecclestone-hates-f1-needs-new-engines/

    Like you say yourself, he sits (sat?) on the board and can vote on certain things, but he didn't have overruling capacity.
     
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  23. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    #45 william, Mar 25, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2021
    Re. Ecclestone and his criticism of the hybrid formula.

    This always reminds me of the ill-advised speech from Gerald Ratner.

    Gerald Ratner was heading the biggest jewelry business in UK, and went publicly to mock his products and make fun of the people buying them.

    Soon customers deserted his shops, and his business went bust.

    Gerald Ratner - Famous Gaffe (Complete Crap Gaffe)



    The man who destroyed his multimillion dollar company in 10 seconds
    Yes life was good until the fateful day when he was guest speaker at the Institute of Directors on April 23, 1991 attended by over 6000 business people and journalists.

    https://www.businessblogshub.com/2012/09/the-man-who-destroyed-his-multi-million-dollar-company-in-10-seconds/





    Bernie making fun of the hybrid F1 noise when he was supposed to promote the series had a similar effect on F1 audience, IMO.
     
  24. SimCity3

    SimCity3 Formula 3



    Lovely building was 116.

    It's cellar bar was also splendid for a quick Speckled Hen
     
  25. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 World Champ
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