Belt Service

On the "while you're in there" subject there are varying levels to this. A water pump just because you've got the wheel liner off and you're looking at it? No, you can get in there and do a water pump any time it's needed. In my case, doing the head gaskets at 60,000 miles, do I replace the valve guides that are technically still within limits but getting close to being out of limits? The "there" is now a place that you're not easily getting back to so the considerations are different.

 

Which one makes more sense, A or B
A: Replace it while you’re in there
B: If it’s not broken, don’t fix it

 

I fix what has to be fixed while he has it. No problem with that.

My point is I'm not R&Ring the damn water pump etc every 3 years too. That sort of thing.

Having said that, I will probably go ahead and swap the pump next trip in only because it is the one I put on myself one week after I bought the car in Sept 1997. I think 23 years is long enough and I don't want it to fail like it did the mother****ing ******* day I brought it home after waiting to get one since I was 13.

 

I'll say. 35 years on the original WP on my QV and 25 on the original on my 355.

Interesting in that in 35 years of ownership I was only asked once if I wanted the WP changed on my QV. That was 10 years ago.

.

B.

 

The 1st generation 308's the waterpump was junk, the belt covers overhung the pump body and mounting bolts and the pump was held to the block with long studs (the A/C compressor was fully studded too). You had to take everything apart to fix it so yea, there was a logic to it. Whatever logic there was ended in 83 because the pump became very easy to do.

That was only 37 years ago.

 

Funny you mention that because when I was asked about changing the WP on my QV 10 yrs ago my response was, "It's a QV. It's only a couple of hours work for me to do it."

 

my friend guiseppe, who does most of the maintenance on my 328, told me i "over service" my car. he even talked me into removing the compressor
from the engine since i've never driven the car with the roof in place. obviously this makes his life easier and my wallet a little fatter.
as for the belt service, it's still every 3 yrs. oil , gearbox fluid, coolant, brake fluid all every year. those i perform myself.

 

“oil , gearbox fluid, coolant, brake fluid all every year.”
You must be using yours as a daily driver— congratulations! In the words of Monty Python, “You lucky, lucky bastard!”
(Or your mechanic is right)

 

I did mine in my driveway with a friend on a Saturday. First time I had ever seen the side of a 308 engine.

 

But you cannot compare the low revving Iveco light trucks with the revs of the Ferrari engines.
Even the SKF tensioner bearings for a Diesel Fiat Mirafiori fit our engines. BTW; These were the ones, which independent spare parts dealers supplied for our cars. Back then, when the SKF tensioners were a good substitute.

There's no complete insurance regarding belt failures or damages. A friend replaced his belts and tensioners and just a year or two later caught a stone after he drove on a gravel road. Remember. The early Euro cars don't have that cambelt cover on the back.

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And because of the fact, that you cannot insure against every incident I stay with my 5-7 years interval.

Best from Germany
Martin

 

I had a cam belt fail on my old 1990 Ford Ranger. Had about 100K on it when it popped off back around 07.

 

I did say that water pump on certain models, such as the 348 where the water pump is used as an idle bearing for the long ash timing belt. When the water pump freezes up, then the engine blows. That one should get replaced pre-emptively.

Water pump on a 355 is awfully hard to change with the engine in the car. It involves dropping the gas tank and while it is totally doable with the engine in, it is just better for all if the water pump is replaced on a 10 years cycle or every other major cycle. The replacement pump is now actually better and cheaper too.

The waterpump on the 308/328 is pretty easy to get to from the top so no need to take extra precaution.

 

I suspect two of them were deferred maintenance. It's not uncommon that I recommend a timing belt replacement based on age or miles, and the customer declines.

I'm sure some of them post on Facebook soon after that "I went in for my free airbag recall, and the stealership mechanic tried to upsell me."

(Dear customer: I make more money if your timing belt breaks, than if I replace it before it breaks.)

Belt manufacturers have a lifetime based on both miles AND age. That's why Brian is checking date codes on his parts. Rubber degrades over time, even just sitting there. Same with tires, hoses...

Another spectacular belt fail was due to a pulley bolt failing, after being reused/retorqued during a scheduled belt change. It took about a month for the bolt to fracture under stress. We are now treating those bolts as one-use hardware.

 

A. I wasn't commenting on your statement. Besides this conversation is really about 308/328. If we include all the other belt driven motors a great deal of what is being said here is either wrong or not applicable.

B. Pull the fuel tank to do a 355 pump? You sure like doing things the hard way. I have done them with the engine in the car. Not that bad a job. But I also do Boxer water pumps in the car and all the hand wringers say it can't be done.

 

I have said that here a thousand times and people still don't seem to get it.

Not to mention if I let clients get to the point the belts broke it would be the last time I saw them. I am expected to prevent that kind of ****.

 

Not on the early cars. On these a waterpump job requires the same dismantling tasks like a cambelt job.
On later cars they modified the cambelt covers, so taking them off was no more necessary for removal of the water pump.

Best from Germany
Martin

 

Brian, my hat is off to you. I am not worthy. The best I can do is to change the Power Steering pump with the engine in the car. But the water pump? No effing way for me.

 

I am approaching 70,000 miles on my '87 328. What's this timing belt thing I keep reading about?

 

You see, even when a piece of rock gets in between the belt and the pulley, the belt still doesn’t break, so yes I also would do 5-7 years and I’m in my 6th years now, one more year.

 

You didn't try very hard, then. There are literally dozens, if not hundreds, of timing belt change interval discussions in this 308/328 section, and everything you could think of related to that topic has been discussed before. Normally I wouldn't post "do a search", but when you claim to not be able to find threads I know for a certainty exist, then you need to know that you are missing a lot.

What the hell, though, you seem to know better than the decades-experienced expert Ferrari mechanics, and it's only a Ferrari engine you'll blow up if you're wrong, so feel free to do your own thing!

 

First: I said "unless you race with your car". Ferrari Classiche has a 308 GTB as track car for the vintage driving school at Fiorano track: maybe for that one better not waiting ten years before changing belts (and many other things…)

Second: dust and cold ar big enemies for a belt. An Iveco truck can rest outside all nights in winter with -10°C (or even more) and can travel on roads full of dust, salt, sand, gravel and so on: a 308, today, usually no.

IN MY OPINION the belt work is much more demanding on an Iveco light truck than on a vintage 308, that usually rests at warm or at least in a closed box, doesn't go on sand and is well cared by his owner.

So, if they can stand 8 years on an Iveco light truck, they can stand even more on a 308.

I already told the story of the PPI done by the owner of an official Ferrari dealership here in Italy, with a less than 20 k miles 328 that had seven years old belts. The shop owner drove the car under his full responsibility and with his test plate: I wasn't the owner yet and if he had broken the car he would have to pay it by his own pockets. He lifted the car and inspected all the engine bay and suspensions: he gave a look to the belts conditions too. Then we had a road test (I was the passenger, he was the test driver) and when the car warmed up, he pushed up to 7000 RPM. I asked him exactly this: "belts are 7 years old, is this high RPM driving safe?" And he answered: "belts won't break, it's time to change them but don't worry they won't fail now".
Then, years after this fact, my mechanic (that fixes and services 308s since 1976) told me the same: 7-8 years, or even a bit more if the car does very few miles and just does some meetings and so on.

Yes: it depends also how many miles and how and where you do them, but usually 308 now are vintage cars that are no more exposed to the heavy use they could have once and the belts themselfes are much better (and better known) now than in 1973, 47 years ago, when they were introduced on a 308 engine.

I just wrote here what two very important and big Ferrari experts told me.

You can change belts every year, if you want: it won't hurt the car, it will just hurt your wallet.

ciao

 

That again fits perfectly what thorn said in his post #38:

"Dear customer: I make more money if your timing belt breaks, than if I replace it before it breaks."

Best from Germany
Martin

 

No, Martin, I'm sorry: you are wrong. The official Ferrari service had to pay by his pockets if the seven years old belts failed during the PPI. And my mechanic, if one of my belts fails after what he recomended me to do, won't fix my broken engine as I will change mechanic. So your period "Dear customer: I make more money if your timing belt breaks, than if I replace it before it breaks." is wrong. 100% wrong.

Experience says I'm right: no 308 belt fails after 3 years, never. Unless bad installed, of course: but it fails after three days, not three years.

And then let me say that after 47 years of belts on a 308, the belts are improved and everyone learned that 308 belts don't fail after three years. Nor five: many here can confirm this as personal experience.

ciao

 

100% agree: That's why is better have the work done by anyone that knows this and it's not the very first time that deals with 308 belts.

I was told more or less the same by my mechanic (and not only…).

ciao