Belt Changing | FerrariChat

Belt Changing

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by SouthJersey400i, May 23, 2007.

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  1. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,591
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
    Full Name:
    Ken Battle
    When I get a few minutes I will post a note about my "first road trip" with my 400i. The short story is a great 3-day weekend and a "to do" list when I got back.

    The major item is replacing the AC belts which snapped. When then went they took out one of the two PS belts. I believe the belt failure was my in attention to age and tension before the trip and not a bad compressor. It nearly froze us!

    I have a shop manual that I will read before starting the job to replace all of the belts. From my look up at them from under the car, it looks like working inside a rhino's mouth! Any suggestions? Any special tools required? I have not yet seen where the PS mounting and adjusting bolts are. The rest appear accessible.

    Any help appreciated.
    Ken
    p.s. I always like to know what the labor time at a shop or dealer is before I begin a new job. Anyone have all their belts done? What was the labor time or money?
     
  2. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 23, 2006
    11,770
    GMT -5 & GMT +1
    Full Name:
    Dave
    I haven't changed them myself on my car, but my understanding is you're in for loads of fun.

    Sorry.
     
  3. Schumi

    Schumi Formula Junior
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 5, 2002
    827
    Missouri
    Full Name:
    Daren
    I'm going to resurrect this old thread as I need assistance with changing a couple of belts that came off. One of them probably broke and helped the other one slip off. Any help would be appreciated.
     
  4. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,591
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
    Full Name:
    Ken Battle
    Schumi (are you that good?)

    First some basics, what belts? You can buy the Gates M style belts mail order; I get mine from Penn Quip or EB Atmus.
    My car is an '84 400i LHD, other cars may be a bit different.
    PS Belts (2) 7M560
    Lower Alt 7M630 (I changed from 650)
    Upper Alt 7M 670 (I changed from 650)
    AC Belts - NAPA 25-9295 or 9300, be sure they are a good match, NAPA dealer can test the match. Ferrari dealer sent me Conti AVX-13-710 and they were not even close to right size. I got a good matched set from McMaster Carr on another occasion.

    First time I did the job it took about 8 hours; I am sure I can get down to 4+ hours now. Having a helper will reduce time a lot with one person on top and one underneath. There is a specific order to do them when doing all the belts. The PS pump is the toughest due to small gap between engine block and pulley perimeter. PS pump must be in the full up position to get belt past pinch point and full down to get into groves. Get the top alternator belt over the drive pulley AND get AC belts on and adjusted before adjusting PS belt tension.

    Getting tension on the AC belts is not easy. I used a small floor jack and 2x4 under compressor to add tension. There is not a good lever point. One of the AC bracket bolts also must be a bit loose to adjust the belts on left side (alt and/or PS). If you don't get a matched set,one belt will do all the work and one will be loose.

    Take your time, have a helper and good luck.
    Ken
     
  5. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 23, 2007
    8,451
    North Pole AK
    The belts suck! When I did the new AC compressor I took the hood off. It's really fairly easy and really opens up the front of the engine. I used masking tape around both the opening and outside edges of the hood so I wouldn't scratch anything.
    After changing the compressor I took the car to an AC shop to have the system vaced and freon added. The car attracts even more attention when you drive it with the hood off.
     
  6. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

    Sep 22, 2014
    1,000
    Devon, UK
    Full Name:
    Graham
    If I recall you also need a very small ring-nut socket to remove one of the pulleys (can't remember which pulley). I couldn't find a suitable socket so made one out of a 19/32 socket. My local main dealer also didn't have one small enough!
     
  7. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,591
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
    Full Name:
    Ken Battle
    wda
    I never removed a pulley from a driven unit. Interesting idea, it might make things easier if you can get the nut undone.
    Ken
     
  8. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

    Sep 22, 2014
    1,000
    Devon, UK
    Full Name:
    Graham
    Sorry my mistake, its not a pulley nut but a bracket across the front of the pulley held with a ring nut

    Its a pig of a job, but by getting the front bracket off held by the ring nut, this will allow the belts to come straight off, but it does mean an awful lot of ancillaries will also have to come off.

    I would also second getting the hood (bonnet) off.
     
  9. Schumi

    Schumi Formula Junior
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 5, 2002
    827
    Missouri
    Full Name:
    Daren
    Thanks to everyone for the help. I'm not sure what prompted the mass belt exodus, but my guess is that one broke, flew into the path of the others, and they jumped off.
    Apparently they all needed changed anyway.
     
  10. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 23, 2007
    8,451
    North Pole AK
    Yes. This is one of those jobs where you might as well do them all.
     
  11. Schumi

    Schumi Formula Junior
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 5, 2002
    827
    Missouri
    Full Name:
    Daren
    Ok, so I finally got the car into the shop and thought that I could just replace the two A/C belts that actually were gone. Only one of the power steering belts jumped off, but I was able to get it back on without much trouble.
    That thought was incorrect. In order to get the two A/C belts back on, the power steering pump had to be loosened/moved slightly to get the belts passed a metal tab on the power steering pump.
    So that meant both of the alternator belts had to be removed to get the power steering belts off to get the A/C belts on. With all of the belts now loose and/or off, I decided to replace all of the belts (thanks Ken B. for the belt info) "while we were in there."
    The entire process took Vince Hill (owner) and Chaz at Black Horse Motorwerks in Bucyrus, KS, about two and half hours to complete.
    I will note that my car took the original spec 7M 650 alternator belts and the NAPA 25-9295 A/C belts.
    This is a job that should never have to be done again during my ownership...I hope.
     
  12. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

    Sep 22, 2014
    1,000
    Devon, UK
    Full Name:
    Graham
    Yep...its a pig!
     
  13. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,591
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
    Full Name:
    Ken Battle
    I wrote a sequence to change belts in my notebook. It includes notes like, "put belt on but do not tension until....."
    Yes, little bits of metal get in the way and I do plan to use a Dremel on them the next time I do the job.
    Ken
     

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