BELGIAN GP: RACE **Contains SPOILERS!!!11**

Great post! A fine contribution to the forum.


How many spins has Massa had this year? Compared to Lewis? Massa has more therefore he is clearly not a professional driver, has lost much respect, and better get his act together before the drivers ban him for being unsafe. Perhaps Massa should switch to Nascar where spins are part of the show?

How many engine failures have Ferrari had this year in their cars and customer cars? Compared to McLaren? Clearly Ferrari are not a professional car manufacturer, have lost much respect, and better get their act together before the other OEM's are laughing so hard they can't have a serious conversation with Ferraris "engineers". Perhaps Ferrari should switch to Nascar where blown engines is part of the show?

How many DNF's has Kimi had this year? Compared to either McLaren? Clearly Kimi lacks the skill to be considered a professional driver, has lost much respect, and better get his act together before the other drivers ban him for being too unsafe. If he wants to maintain his 200% DNF margin over Lewis, then maybe he should go drive in Nascar where it's part of the show?

How many DNF's has Massa had this year? Compared to either McLaren? Clearly Felipe lacks the skill to be considered a professional driver, has lost much respect, and better get his act together before the other drivers ban him for being too unsafe. If he wants to maintain his 200% DNF margin over Lewis, then maybe he should go drive in Nascar where it's part of the show?




But far be it for pesky things like facts and data get in the way of rossa-colored Hamilton bashing! It's not like he's winning the WDC and the most successful rookie ever, and the current leader of the WDC or anything... he's just some unliked, untalented hack who should be in Nascar... LOL

Brilliant

 

I'm glad you are finally seeing the light.

 

Post like this just make a mokery of the thread.

 

Franco, The FIA make a mockery of F1 thats the shame.

 

But Michael, Massa never ran into the rear of a stopped car in pit lane during a race as did....I forgot the driver's name. Gotta admit, that was pretty silly. That driver must have been talking on his cell phone and just didn't see the Ferrari sitting there or the red light at the end of pit lane. But then, he did throw away the WDC the prior year from a lack of......something.

Of course Kimi ran into the rear of another car while on the track, that was pretty silly also. Looks like Massa is the only one that hasn't rear ended anyone else. Using your logic I would then surmise he must be the safest most observant driver of the three. You may be right, Hamilton and Raikkonen should go NASCAR and be really successful like Montoya.

Serious point is all of these guys have made mistakes, you do when you drive on the edge. This is a Ferrari chat site, one should expect the periodic bashing of the competition. Especially one that drives for the evil McLaren team.

 

I'd say bashing the competition is one thing... making a post that is intended to be taken seriously and saying the WDC-leading driver is in danger of being voted out of F1 by his fellow drivers for being dangerous, and that he's losing respect and isn't talented, is where the line into idiocy is crossed.

And Ron, when people were saying things like "Kimi should immediately be fired!" and "Massa should be out of the car before the next race!" (after his back-to-back spins), those are equally idiotic statements that get an equally harsh response from the folks on here.

Just because it's a Ferrari site, doesn't mean stratospheric levels of mental gimpiness should go unmocked!

 

The point is there should be no discussion of this in this thread as the call was wrong therefore the topic should not exist.
Its all there if you wish to see it.
Like the Kings new clothes. Once made aware he ain't wearing nothin it should be clear.
Many here continue to admire them.

 

Can anyone share a DVD copy of the Spa race?

Please....?

 

I guess running over your own pit crew before the light came on is and example of safe driving and using the whole run off as your personal race track is not cheating?!

Sometimes its better to say nothing and look like an idiot rather than open your mouth and prove it.

 

that is a good video and its nice to see someone put some more substance to this discussion. BUT it completely ingnores the fact that Lewis could have and should have touched his brakes and made an attempt to stay on track. If you look around the 26 to 28 second point in that video you can see that Lewis never touched his brakes but infact turned off the track and accelerated. He had a choice but he chose to take the shortcut. In almost all othe chicane shortcut manouvers I have seen there were brakes applied and the car had no choice but to take the out across the grass or gravel. In this case Lewis had a choice and he did not even brake and not only that he also avoided the grass and stayed on the paved part of the shortcut. If he had tried to brake and stay on the track with at least 2 wheels or just brake to avoid then he would never ever been anywhere as near as they were when crossing the finish line. Its simple as I said before....If Lewis had given back ALL of the UNfair advantage that he gained from deliberately not braking and taking the shortcut then he would have won the race anyway and had the 10 pts in the bag. BUT he didnt and thats the way they also saw it.

 

Thanks for posting Brian.

I understand the stewards believe Hamilton could have still avoided an accident at the chicane by tucking in behind Raikkonen, but he chose to use the escape road. They were going slow enough for Hamilton to stay on the track. I watched this three times, and it seems like Hamilton could have stayed on the track. But I still do not understand the final decision. He would have passed Kimi anyway by the first turn.

I disagree with the gentleman making the YOUTUBE video concerning his comment about slipstreaming. Slipstreaming, drafting, does not only occur immediately behind a car. For example, on a high bank oval you can make a car in front of you loose just by pulling close to the rear quarter panel or open wheel with your front fender or wheel. By making the car in front of you loose, you can attempt the pass. I do not know if this applies here, I do not know the speed of Raikkonen/Hamilton as they crossed the S/F line.

 

When did Kimi run over someone at Spa? Time for a reality check.

http://www.sportinglife.com/formula1..._Stewards.html

 

I very much agree with your point! Hamilton gained advantage by cutting through the chicane which allow the pass on kimi! In the video we could clearly see that hamilton was able to stay in the track if he wanted to. If Hamilton stayed in the track and not cut through chicane he wouldn't be able to gain enough speed to pass kimi at the end of the 1st corner.

Anyhow he has been punished for his act so let's get on to Monza, shall we? The title fight between massa and hamilton is getting more interesting.

 

Correct. Let this be and move on to Monza where Massa will completely dominate. Ill start the thread if it hasnt been yet.

 

+100

 

I understand, you are correct.

 

First off Lewis by rights had the previous corner. He allowed Kimi to stay on the track by giving racing room. A mutually beneficial move as both would be out if he pressed the issue. This allowed Kimi to be in a challenging position for the next corner. Observe where Hammis wheels were. Front right tire in front of Kimmis left rear. If Hammi would not have given quarter the possibility of launching Kimmi was very real. ONCE AGAIN he let Kimmi have his way. A little FYI here. Braking on the grass or dirty part of the track in the wet is a Boo-Boo. Try it. Learn.
Hammi let him regain the lead = Momentum LOST !
As far as "slipstreaming" this will be the next arrow in the Tifosi quiver. In order for slipstreaming to work you must stay in it for a period of time to build momentum. Briefly cutting across the stern of a car does not cut it.
However it does provide the next excuse.

I rooted for Kimi long before he was with Ferrari. Back then he was the devil in many of the eyes here.
I rooted for him when he joined Ferrari.
Then he rested on his laurels but was still gifted a WDC by events.

Spa was his race of desperation but too little too late.

 

They also interview both teams and start the process without protestation from teams first. Next they review video and listen to the radio communications, most of which we will NEVER hear.

RD knew something was up and asked Charlie Whiting to see if Charlie thought LH was in the clear. He did that knowing it was going to be reviewed since he also saw LH CUT the chicane. The cutting of which is not in dispute hence the penalty that was from the rule books - Within 5 laps its a 25 second penalty, prior its 10.

LH's own words - from an article stating he thought the ruling was unfair ""But I knew I had to let him past, and also the team came over the radio and said 'you have to let him past' which I did.

"I was accelerating so that I didn't lose too much ground because I thought that would be unfair".

LH cant have it both ways - Accelerating and letting him back past? He dragged race Kimi out of the turn after he cut the chicane for over 2-400 meters and then lets him back past by decel briefly and setting up a pass in the next turn. He is so full of his own BS its makes me laugh. Once again he justifies his own mistakes rather than simply accepting the responsibility for a mistake he made on his own. No suprise as he never took fault for Montreal.
If you arent on the racing line, he wasnt, he has no room to talk. The replay shows him side by side with Kimi after Kimi drove the corner and his only move to relinquish was to brake and cut across the back of Kimi. Hardly the relinquishing of the advantage. Im sure he was going to pass him without the radio call. The stewards know this and saw he wasnt in a real hurry to relinquish. Frankly he never did hence the penalty.

I thought about this and read the news, talked to friends, and looked at the video's posted here. He was penalized for cutting across the chicane. Not his first time nor his last. As Ive posted before, he is his own worst enemy and continues to be so.

Id rather not see controversey again in the WDC. Too late I guess.
Kimi according to reports, was NOT investigated for his passing of 2 cars under yellow. He should be. I am not biased against fair driving and application of rules. If thats true we should see a penalty for that and Im sure Mclaren will ask. They should.

 

Do you have a link to the full article? The quote above sounds very strange to me, how is it unfair to reverse a position you gained by cutting a chicane? Or was the context different?

When did he pass under yellow? But remember that there'll be no investigation as he didn't finish the race. Same as Hamilton and Rosberg received no penalty after the pit lane crash in Canada.

 

Hamilton did get a penalty and started 10 places back in France and Rosberg cannot be penalized as he ran into a car that was involved in and accident. Hard to avoid that.

 

http://blogf1.co.uk/2008/06/09/hamilton-rosberg-face-grid-penalty-in-france/ ..

 

Stay tuned. They're scrutineering Massa's engine this week.

Hmm: if they drop Massa's engine and prang Nick for, say, speeding in pit lane -- Vettel!

Or maybe they're going for Bourdais.

Someone remind mad Max that the suggestion was to reverse the grid *BEFORE* the race -- not after.

 

LOL

And there were some folks on here who seriously argued for Mad Max in the porn scandal. Lamenting that he was set up etc.

Bullocks! The man is ruining the sport. He and his crew of half wit stewards ought to be thrown out. Along with Bernie who probably thinks this is all good news as it increases ticket sales for the final races. Bunch of morons ruining the sport.

It is beyond me, that these guys who have been running the sport for years, if not decades, still haven't learnt, that the last thing any fan wants is a green table decision after the fact. Once the checkered flag drops, the game is over. No more haggling, no more changes, the podium is final.

I hate the change of the Spa result (pro Ferrari, against McLaren) just as much as I hated the potential change of the Interlagos outcome with the fuel temperature nonsense (against Ferrari, pro McLaren). Once I turn off the TV, I don't want to have to follow the sport online to learn a few hours later that "it was all just a dream" <cue theme of Dallas here>.

 

Speaking of ticket sales, I am leaving Wednesday afternoon to go to Milan to attend the Monza GP. Something I hadn't considered until now is the "right" of the fan who is spending major $$$$ to go to a race to see a fair and equitable race, and quite frankly, one that is untainted by whatever happened the race prior.

I would have been really bummed if Kimi, or Lewis, or Massa, or Heiki, or Kubica, or Heidfeld or even Alonso had gotten a grid penalty at Monza. The major battle of the season right now is obviously between Massa and Hamilton, and to a (much) lesser extent, Kubica. I'd have been seriously pissed if Lewis got a 10-grid penalty, because I have no interest in spending many thousands of dollars just to watch a parade. Are the fans at each track not entitled to a singularly competitive race without affect from prior races? I bought my Monza tickets in December. Imagine if my trip to see a great, competitive, thrilling, and exciting race was screwed by some $h!tstain of a steward at Spa who didn't like what Hamilton (or Massa, or Kimi) did and decided to turn the following race into a borefest by dropping them out of contention.

They should take a lesson from Nascar and if they *must* do something, have them deduct points - don't have them adjusting the frickin stuff that's happenning on track.

Just something I never considered before. And probably a major reason that some of the stands sit empty. You never know if you're going to see a great race or a bore fest, and you don't even know if your favorite driver is going to get a fair shake at winning the race, or if he will be hampered by something that happened at the previous race.

 

Don't count your chicken just yet:

If <insert Ferrari competitor here> gets in the way of Massa or Kimi during qualifying, that driver might get a 5 or 10 spot grid penalty.

And as Alonso has learned "getting in the way" can be as simple as exiting pit lane at the end of the s/f straight while the Ferrari is coming out of Parabolica.