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BBi Major +

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by mexicruiser, Sep 25, 2019.

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  1. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,866
    southwest germany and thailand
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    romano schwabel
    why not put them in from below?
     
  2. mexicruiser

    mexicruiser Karting

    Aug 28, 2012
    241
    Full Name:
    Jon
    to be honest I simply didn’t think of that option. The parts diagram shows these go in from the top.
     
  3. mexicruiser

    mexicruiser Karting

    Aug 28, 2012
    241
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    Jon
    Fuel system test day, found many problems:
    -Fuel pumps very noisy and one is seized up, also wrong type without check valve.
    -Fuel distributor plungers stuck

    after soaking the plungers with injector cleaner and mineral spirits for hours thru the WUR regulated pressure fitting, the plungers became unstuck and I proceeded to test fuel delivery, LH System is ok but RH is severely unbalanced, after inspection I found the Rh FD has been disassembled previously, some of the fuel flow adjuster caps were loose an the plunger nut had marks, I could also see part of the diaphragm showing thru the bolt holes. Bought two repair sets from CIS-Jetronic.com. I will rebuild and test with new pumps and filters and see if I can balance the Fuel Dists.
     
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  4. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,866
    southwest germany and thailand
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    romano schwabel
    good luck :)
     
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  5. pshoejberg

    pshoejberg Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2007
    1,694
    Denmark
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    Peter H
    Balancing a CIS Fuel distributor is a challenging task if you don’t have the right tools. I have overhauled the distributor in my 308 and attempted to adjust and balance the fuel output making all kinds of bottle based measuring system’s. Next time I will sent it out for professional tuning at someone I trust. My conclusion is that it is wasted time and effort to perform this job yourself UNLESS you really enjoy fabricating stuff and inhaling petrol fumes. Anyhow keep us updated on your progress.

    Best, Peter
     
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  6. Grease Donkey

    Grease Donkey Karting

    Jul 5, 2018
    88
    Zurich, Switzerland
    As per Joe's and Peter's remark: if you haven't done it before don't try. They are tough to assemble and impossible to balance without special tools.

    Fortunately the Bosch distributors in our cars were very common in the 70s and 80s. Therefore qualified repair shops exist still today and are not overly expensive.

    Can someone from the States recommend a place?
     
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  7. mexicruiser

    mexicruiser Karting

    Aug 28, 2012
    241
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    Jon
    Yes I’ve read all kind of stories on the FD balancing, most (not all) are fails , there is a repair service in the US although I’ve read it takes a while, there is also someone on ebay offering this service for around 600 usd each.
    I think I’ll try it myself as the rebuild set is not expensive and I have time to do it.
    The concept is fairly simple, the sensitive adjustments are central plunger sleeve position and diaphragm preload for each individual chamber, I suppose the goal would be to achieve equal opening pressure for all chambers.
    I saw a picture of a test contraption someone posted after a search on the net, could be close to what is needed.
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  8. Grease Donkey

    Grease Donkey Karting

    Jul 5, 2018
    88
    Zurich, Switzerland
    The challenge is that you need 2 balanced units :rolleyes:
     
  9. mexicruiser

    mexicruiser Karting

    Aug 28, 2012
    241
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    Jon
    Yes that is a challenge, the plates would have to be simetricaly set to measure and compare. But otherwise I would have to pay 1200 usd and wait for months OR swap to efi. OR put a pair of holleys on it (joking) .
     
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  10. mexicruiser

    mexicruiser Karting

    Aug 28, 2012
    241
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    Jon
  11. mexicruiser

    mexicruiser Karting

    Aug 28, 2012
    241
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    Jon
    Found this video on youtube on k-jet, sorry it is in german but it is the most detailed I’ve seen so far.
     
  12. mexicruiser

    mexicruiser Karting

    Aug 28, 2012
    241
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    Jon
    #87 mexicruiser, May 5, 2021
    Last edited: May 5, 2021
    I present the “Kayet 2000 ColloRosso”
     

    Attached Files:

  13. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,866
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    romano schwabel
    when you test so then you need some time until the airbubbles in the long hoses are out.
    I put the nozzles always directly into the12 measuring glasses
     
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  14. Supernaut

    Supernaut Karting

    Dec 3, 2019
    146
    Annapolis MD
    Full Name:
    John Panek
    Gorgeous! Why is the fuel in the left 6 more orange than the fuel in the right 6? Is this some esoteric Ferrari thing I haven’t learned about yet lol. Can’t wait to do this for mine.
     
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  15. mexicruiser

    mexicruiser Karting

    Aug 28, 2012
    241
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    Jon
    The hardware store clear hose fits perfectly over the injectors and the tip of the syringes (I used zip ties as a precaution), I then purged the air out of the hoses and leveled the gas on the syringes (bought from my local Veterinarian), total cost about 35 usd.
    I used spacers under the sensor plates and started the pumps via a jumper on the sensor plate switch connection to get them to start simultaneously, I then recorded variations and after balancing the FD’s on the top screws I achieved a +/- 3% variation at part throttle, the steel injectors gave me problems though, at full throttle there was a big flow difference in some of them, and one was sticking and had to be “persuaded” to inject by knocking on it with a wrench so I decided to fix this and redo the balancing.
    I attempted to clean the injectors by placing them overnight in mineral spirits and then spraying carb cleaner thru them (as someone suggested on a different thread the carb cleaner plastic tube fits perfect in the small hole) this improved the spray pattern on most of them, on the most stubborn I even shot acid thru them once. After cleaning, the full throttle results where MUCH better BUT more of them started to get stuck and had to be “clinked” on by a steel wrench to get them started, I finally gave up and bought new bronze injectors from Rockauto. As many of you have pointed out all over the chat, they are cheap and it is too risky to reuse the old ones.
    When I get the new injectors I will rebalance the FD’s and check full throttle variations again.
     
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  16. mexicruiser

    mexicruiser Karting

    Aug 28, 2012
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    Jon
    When the engine is out I did this also, but with the engine in there is no space to do it properly, making it hard to see small differences, also very messy. I turned the fuel lines upside down to be able to route the hoses better and purge the air out faster.

    Sharp eyes! I don’t know why but I think it is because I first poured 20 lts of fuel from one brand and then 20 lts of a different brand into the completely empty tanks, perhaps these were colored different and one side ended up with more of one type than the other? The tanks were empty and new pumps/filters.
     
  17. mexicruiser

    mexicruiser Karting

    Aug 28, 2012
    241
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    Jon
    In the meantime I am installing the window accelerators/switch savers I made, materials:
    4x Hella 5 wire relay sockets (autozone) 2-046
    4x Bosch purple relays 0 332 209 151 (SPDT)
    4x 14 gauge female spade terminal
    4x 14 gauge male spade terminal
    4x 10 gauge ring terminal 6mm hole
    2x 10 gauge male spade terminal
    2x 10 gauge female spade terminal
    1x old bicycle tire tube
    20 cm shrink tube to fit over wires (to insulate crimps)
    20 cm shrink tube to fit over terminals (to keep them together when connected)

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  18. mexicruiser

    mexicruiser Karting

    Aug 28, 2012
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    Jon
    I used the door for ground as there are already grounding wires from the main harness, only routed a 10ga wire for 12v from the fuse panel for power.
    Some terminals I used a generic brand but these are not good at keeping the crimp tight so I had to weld them. I love the Perma Seal terminals (although pricey) these crimp solidly and come with a thick shrink sleeve, also when heated these release some sort of adhesive inside to glue the wire insulation to the sleeve, this keeps the crimp from taking all the stress when pulling on the wires.
     
  19. mexicruiser

    mexicruiser Karting

    Aug 28, 2012
    241
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    Jon
  20. mexicruiser

    mexicruiser Karting

    Aug 28, 2012
    241
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    Jon
    Question for the other Boxer owners: How are the a pillar trim pieces held on from the factory? Mine are riveted, the rivets occupy the slit on the trim and therefore interfere with the door seal, not allowing the seal to fit properly on the sheetmetal. The interior was redone at one point and I wonder if this is normal. I removed the two parts that fill the gap from the dash to the door and used double sided tape from 3M to attach them, this made the door seal fit so much better.
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  21. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,866
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    romano schwabel
    this speedometer is not from a BB or a BBi
    or you show it only because of the great tmepertaure: 48°C - WOW. warmer than here in thailand :)
    so when you work at those temperature you will loose 0,5 kg each hour :)
     
  22. mexicruiser

    mexicruiser Karting

    Aug 28, 2012
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    Jon
    I’m guessing there is a significant margin of error on the temp gauge, real temp was closer to 45C
     
  23. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    romano schwabel
    still 45 too hot to work :)
     
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  24. mexicruiser

    mexicruiser Karting

    Aug 28, 2012
    241
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    Jon
    Updating, as I did lots of stuff but didn’t take the time to write about it:
    -installed the new injectors and did the whole “balancing act” again, this time I used a smaller version of my “kjet lab”, the kjet “martian invader” has shorter hoses were easier to purge and less prone to variations. I was able to get all values within the recommender variation at part and full throttle.
    -the new injectors have a much better atomization pattern.
    -had to disassemble the left meter as the adjustment screw was stuck and I didn’t want to ruin it. I used heat, penetrating lube and a short allen key.
    -the engine was started and balanced with a vacuum gauge, to do this easier I installed a pair of bronze tees in the small hose that runs to the vacuum diverters, this way I have “ports” to check without hassle.
    -I got water leaks from several hoses, I blame this mainly on me being too timid with clamp tightening, the new ABA clamps I used are excellent but require a lot of torque just to move the worm drive and this gives the feeling you are overtightening. Also I used inch sized hoses and no sealant, this probably contributed somewhat too. After retightening the ones I could reach (two or three are simply not reachable) I was still left with one small leak, a bit embarrassing but I will try to fix this with ac delco sealing tabs.

    I still haven’t done a test drive as I have to fabricate the wiring harness for the tail lights, this was lost by the PO and was wired quite unprofessionally.

    In the meantime I will install the bonnet slats I had removed and fit the new wire mesh I got (also lost by PO)
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  25. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,866
    southwest germany and thailand
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    romano schwabel
    if you use good clamps you can not overtighten them, they have to be strong enough, otherwise you use wrong clamps

    big mistake ! ! !
     

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