Battery trickle charger/float/tender? | FerrariChat

Battery trickle charger/float/tender?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by KILOCHARLIE, Aug 17, 2019.

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  1. KILOCHARLIE

    KILOCHARLIE Formula Junior

    Oct 14, 2012
    321
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    KC
    So over the last couple of years and with additions to my family, my 360 has gone from 365 daily use to to ultimate garage queen. I used to mock you guys and now I am a fully paid up member of the sub 100 miles a year club.

    I'm looking for advice for what type of battery care to go for as I'm currently either letting the battery drain completely between uses (yes I know that's bad) or using the battery cut off switch when not in use and then the 360 not liking it at all when turning it back on (proper run in procedure used but it will go into limp mode a few times before it can be used properly again - just like it always has done).

    My Ferrari specialist uses these great Porsche devices that plug into the cigarette lighter sockets and swears by them but reckons they are no longer available.

    Does anyone have any tips on what to use or what to go for without breaking the bank? Does it have to be a tender vs a trickle charger and will any off the shelf Amazon job be ok?

    I plan on keeping the car "ready to use" in the summer for any 3 minute chance I get for going for a drive, then storage through the winter where it won't be used at all.

    Thanks all
     
  2. hessank

    hessank Formula 3
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    Aug 8, 2005
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    Fred
    KC I'll take a stab at a suggestion and the rationale behind this choice.
    There are lots of 'smart' chargers and battery maintainers around. However, they are not all the same as
    I will explain. I have a vacation home 1500 miles away that I visit 2 or 3 times a year until I am fully retired.
    I have a car in the garage for use when I am there so maintaining the battery has been paramount.
    Over the past 9 years of home ownership I have replaced 4 doa batteries ( with no chance of revival). Totally sulfated.

    I've also been through several chargers until I realized the one feature that is essential (was a bit slow to figure it out).
    This feature is the ability of the charger/maintainer to reset itself after a power loss (blackout conditions) without human interference.
    NOCO, CTEK etc all failed. After a power failure some of these require you to reset the the battery type (wet/AGM) etc. before starting the charge cycle.

    The only reliable one I found was made by Deltran (no affiliation). To test whichever one you choose, setup your charger/maintainer, unplug for 15 mins and then plug it back in to see if it will continue to charge or maintain (on float) without any other action on your part (i.e. adjusting charging parameters). Now I get no more doa batteries (past 2 years)


    My $0.02
     
    tomc likes this.
  3. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
    12,282
    South East
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    Jimmie
    Deltran aren't in the UK - most use CTEK - if you are not sure talk to a dealer such as morethanpolish.com - fifty quid maybe
     
  4. KILOCHARLIE

    KILOCHARLIE Formula Junior

    Oct 14, 2012
    321
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    KC
    Thanks both.

    Fred: that's a good tip but fortunately power cuts are really really rare where I am. I think the last was about 15 years ago. If I cut the power in my home for any reason though I'll definitely remember your advice and add it to the long list of everything that needs checking cctv, smoke alarms and even my lawnmower needs a physical reset if so cut the power. Thank you though.

    Jimmie: yep seen the ctek ones around but if I get one that's rated for my battery, they are silly money (£200+). I'm unsure if the rated size of the charger (and even the added features they come with) are necessarily a must have though? I've been using a Halfords battery charger rated "up to 1.4 litre cars" for the last 15 years on many different cars without any issue whatsoever. Some with huge batteries such as AMG's and Range rovers. I've sometimes left this on for weeks at a time (although with the battery not connected to the car) without any seemingly fictitious problems such as "overcharging". Grateful if anyone has any advice with this or if this whole situation changes with charging the battery still connected to the car?

    Also does anyone know, specifically with Ferrari, if charging through the cigarette lighter is ok? This would ring more alarm bells in my opinion than using an under rated charger.
     
  5. swift53

    swift53 F1 Veteran
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    Nov 17, 2007
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    Alberto
    My CTEK charger, blew up the rear of the battery. Really scary, as fire could have occurred.
    Fortunately, not.
    Deltran at Costco is the choice.

    Regards, Alberto
     
  6. hessank

    hessank Formula 3
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    Aug 8, 2005
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    Deltran also sold at Amazon UK
     
  7. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
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    #7 greyboxer, Aug 18, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2019
    The owners manual tells you specifically for your Ferrari not to

    The reasons are not given but no doubt have been discussed at length previously in charger/tender threads

    Thanks update re Deltran in Uk

    OP unless you have a rinky-dink special battery most of the numerous other threads here suggest something like the MXS 5
     
  8. sandreb

    sandreb Karting

    Feb 7, 2018
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    Sander B.
    I have a Ctek that I got at 4wheelonline. Been using it for years without any issues. For the money, you can't go wrong with Deltran.
     
  9. mike01606

    mike01606 Formula Junior

    Feb 21, 2012
    794
    Cheshire UK
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    Mike M
    I’ve an Accumate which has worked perfectly for 7 years. They’re a little bit cheaper than Ctek.
     
  10. Rdwaggie

    Rdwaggie Karting
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    Nov 6, 2018
    105
    There doesn’t seem to be many people using a Noco Genius. I picked one up recently and it works great.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  11. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    May 29, 2001
    17,913
    USA
    Granite Battery Saver also has this feature of not having a reset or start button to push after a power interruption. It simply resumes when power is restored.
    https://www.batterysaver.com/store/p16/3015-lcd.html There standard model works with all battery types except lithium Ion, and if you need that, they have that covered as well with an "all in one" that includes lithium ion https://www.batterysaver.com/store/c2/ALL-IN-ONE
     
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  12. hessank

    hessank Formula 3
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    That's a pretty nice unit. Thanks for the info Hugh.
    With the voltmeter built in and being able to maintain 2 batteries is a bonus.
     
  13. bisel

    bisel Formula 3
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    Sep 12, 2012
    1,138
    Scottsdale, Arizona
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    Steve Bisel
    I second the Deltran units. I have had one for nearly six years and no issues. They are less costly than nearly every other brand and they have the same functions. Deltran and CTEK are the two most popular manufacturers. Both Deltran and CTEK make units for various car and motorcycle companies. I believe CTEK makes units for Ferrari's and Ferrari re-brands it. Deltran makes units for some GM cars and Harley Davidson and they both re-rebrand it. I really believe that people who state that CTEK is better than Deltran or vice versa are tending to fall for the marketing hype that each of those manufacturers are trying to sell.

    I only recommend Deltran because they are less costly and offer the same functions as any other. You should choose whichever you like and I doubt you will have any issues.
    http://products.batterytender.com/Chargers/
    https://smartercharger.com/pages/charger-selection-chart

    Steve
     
  14. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    I totally agree that their is little difference amongst brands, except for a few specific features that might be desirable, such as not having to press a "start" button, which is nice if you have power interruptions. I have owned over a dozen different battery tenders, and found they all do the job just fine. Cold temp setting (or temperature compensation), AGM settings, desulfation modes, etc....ultimately, they all work fine, from the least expensive $20 unit to the $160 ones.

    The only reason I might recommend Griots Garage battery tenders is they come with a lifetime warranty. I've seen and heard of enough failures that it could come in handy. But I have never experienced a failure myself, except with the crappy Ferrari branded one made by Ctek. It seems to work, but is intermittent in giving a full charge indication. I quit using it, and put it back with the car cover, and other accessories I never use.
     
  15. colorfull

    colorfull Formula 3
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    Sep 12, 2020
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    John Napoli
    I picked up a CTEK as my F430 didn't come with one

    To charge, I hook it up every 2 weeks, takes a few hours maybe, I've never timed it.

    My question, when I hook it up, it goes right to the 2nd of the 4 levels, and when it's done, it's all full level

    Does this mean I have a weak battery and should replace?

    Thank you for any advice!
     
  16. raemin

    raemin Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2007
    1,825
    Lyon (FR)
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    R. Emin
    Quite the opposite...

    First level is "desulfation", the longer it takes the worse the state of the battery. The idea is that some "stalactite shaped shorts" (dendrites actually) do build-up across the plates of the battery. These dendrites do short the batteries terminal in the long run. During the de-sulfation process, the charger sends some current spikes in order to break these dendrites. When it sees no point in breaking dendrite, the charger moves to the next step.

    So based on your description, no internal short in your battery.
     
  17. colorfull

    colorfull Formula 3
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    @raemin, thank you for that excellent description, good to know what's going on in there.

    So is it safe to say then that when it starts to take much longer to charge, I should consider replacing?

    Thanks again for all the help!
     
  18. raemin

    raemin Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2007
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    As long as your car does start well and as long as the ODB does not send you tons of errors (more than 2 faulty sensors is probably due to insufficient voltage), no point in changing the battery.

    If it takes longer it could also well be that the car has not been run for a long time. You do have a "smart voltage regulator" in your car: under normal driving condition the battery does receive a slight voltage boost at the beginning of the drive. This boost has the same objective as the VTEC desulfation process. If your car has not been run for quite a while it did not receive this "cleaning" procedure, so the smart charger will have to take care of it.

    The newer batteries (AGM, spiral wound, etc...) do use thinner plates much closer to each others, this allows for higher amp-draw but these batteries are also far more sensitive to dendrite build-up (easier to short the plates as they are closer). That's why modern Optima batteries do require battery tenders in vintage Ferrari: the voltage regulator of the alternator is not smart enough so has to clean-up the dendrite (i.e you need a smart charger for these old cars).
     
  19. colorfull

    colorfull Formula 3
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    wow, thank you so much for making the time to provide all that info, great to know for sure. Glad to know that I'm in ok shape in that regard. thanks again.

    I will be doing my best to make sure I never have the issue where the car isn't run for a long time :) Winter in NJ being the longest stretch....even then I plan to take it out on days the roads are clear (just got it last fall and was working on it this past winter, we'll see how we go this winter)
     
  20. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    The easier way to determine if the battery needs replacing is to purchase a battery load tester. I bought one many years ago and has been invaluable tool to have.
    I have a private label version of this one (Griot's Garage) but it is less expensive under the Schumacher brand SCHUMACHER ELECTRIC Battery Tester, Digital, 125 to 1400A - 444N25|BT175 - Grainger
     
  21. colorfull

    colorfull Formula 3
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    Like it! That looks very handy to have!
     
  22. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    I use it more than I thought I would. One tip if you want an accurate test. Don't test right after using the battery tender...it will falsely give a better reading than actual. If you just charged the battery, turn on the headlights for 40 seconds or so, to remove the surface charge. Wait a minute or two for the battery to recover, then test.

    I test all my batteries annually, or whenever I am performing an oil change. I caught a failing battery on my GFs truck a couple years ago...I test it every three or four months as she drives a ton, so oil changes are frequent...but that battery was like 12 years old! So it can save money by not replacing just based on time, but based on actual wear. In the case of my GF, I caught it well before she was experiencing any symptoms. And it still started and ran fine, but I replaced it immediately.
     
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  23. colorfull

    colorfull Formula 3
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    Great stuff! When I think of all the battery problems over the years, this is next level and so useful.

    Thanks again!!!
     

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