Battery Cut Off Switch Question | FerrariChat

Battery Cut Off Switch Question

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by moysiuan, Nov 11, 2024.

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  1. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
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    #1 moysiuan, Nov 11, 2024
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2024
    How can this make any sense, I am getting 12.68 volts accorss the (new) battery terminals, but with the cut off switch in the off position, I am getting 12.52 volts from the two ground wires that attach to the cut off switch?

    How could this happen, some sort of internal flaw inside the switch, but how can it read any voltage? A major chassis short circuit somewhere? Forgive amatuer hour on volt meter readings, but this makes no sense to me.

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  2. gunn

    gunn Formula Junior

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    I don't entirely understand the two measurements you made and your picture isn't very clear.

    Scenario 1: You measured the battery from POS terminal to NEG terminal with the cutoff switch is set to off and measured 12.68V
    - This is the maximum potential of the battery and the circuit is completed from terminal to terminal THROUGH the voltmeter (which is the path of least resistance for current).
    - If you actually physically disconnected the battery from the cutoff switch, the measurement wouldn't change. THAT tells you that the cutoff switch is working.

    Scenario 2: I THINK you measured one terminal to another
    - I removed my stock switch and replaced it with a newer one so I don't remember if the stock wiring disconnects the POS battery terminal to everything downstream (aka the main fuse panel) OR if it merely disconnects the ground wire to the battery.
    - I believe it cuts off the power. In that situation, the voltage potential being measured is a lot longer (aka going through the chassis) so a small voltage loss is not unexpected.


    If you are worried about a parasitic loss, disconnect the wire feeding power from the POS terminal to the battery, place the voltmeter in series (not in parallel like when you measure votlage) between the battery and all the stuff downstream, and measure the amperage (DCA)
    - Obviously, don't turn anything on as any real amount of current will burn out your lead wires if not your voltmeter).

    Parasitic draw should be 30ma or less. If its 80ma or higher, something will kill your battery.
    https://www.uti.edu/blog/automotive/parasitic-battery-drain
     
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  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    This might be a "normal" result. When you touch the voltmeter probe to the terminal of the (open) cutoff switch that connects to the chassis, it has a path of cutoff switch terminal - to chassis - to negative side of all the gizmos - thru the gizmo (if "on") - to the positive side of all the gizmos - to the positive battery terminal (and things like a radio memory would be in an "on" state). Consequently, If any gizmo is "on", the whole chassis is at the potential of the positive battery terminal when the cutoff switch is open.
     
  4. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
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    Very interesting, thank you.

    Fyi, doing a voltage drop test, among other readings:

    Battery at rest 12.6 v
    Battery on starter engaged (fuel pump relay removed) 11.0v
    Reading at white solenoid wire on starter engaged (with wire connected to the solenoid spade) 9.4-9.6v

    Solenoid white wire at rest, disconnected (no load) at key ignition on position 11.4v

    I think these readings suggests all is well, can you confirm this is "normal"?

    I am debating whether to put in the WR1 relay kit, I am thinking that may not be necessary given these readings?
     
  5. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #5 Steve Magnusson, Nov 11, 2024
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2024
    Yes, generally normalish. By:

    "Solenoid white wire at rest, disconnected (no load) at key ignition on position 11.4v"

    Do you mean the voltage on the disconnected white wire at the starter solenoid is 11.4V with the key in Pos III (start)? If so, what does the voltage between the battery terminals measure during this same test? (It is not "no load" because things like the ignition system, the key services relay, the window relays, etc. would be "on".)
     
  6. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    One of the mounting screws is common to one of the cable studs. If the 2 cables are attached backwards the supposedly isolated battery is still grounded via the switch mounting screw. Dumb switch design. I encountered this for the first time about a year ago.
     
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  7. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
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    Yes, the white wire disconnected in Pos III. Battery measures 12.35v in Pos III with white wire disconnected, down from the 12.6v at rest.
     
  8. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
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    The picture is of the cutoff switch, and it is two ground cables one from the negative battery post on the right, and the braided cable to the chassis on the left. So the switch interrupts the ground to do the cut off. Yes, I measured one terminal to the other on what I would have expected would simply have been a ground to ground measurement.

    The battery cable to the switch measures the same 12.6v, with the switch on or off, so the battery cable is good. With the switch on, I get the same 12.6v as I would expect. With the switch off the braided chassis cable at the switch measures 0.28v. I would have expected zero?
     
  9. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
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    #9 moysiuan, Nov 11, 2024
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2024
    It is possible I put them on backwards some years ago when I was cleaning the grounds. Never would have thought it would make any difference! The braided chassis on the left side the switch as I have done is what I have seen in another picture of the switch in another thread related to battery replacement. So not sure if I should reverse the cables?
     
  10. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    If the switch is in the off position and the battery is still on the cables are reversed. You can do with that whatever you feel like.

    Do you really believe yours is the only car with reversed cables? A random picture of another car is never a good example to copy.
     
  11. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
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    Remeasured the white wire that read 11.4v disconnected in Pos III, might not have had the alligator clip securely connected, I now get 12v. I am going to presume my readings all now make sense, all the wiring connections are good.

    Interesting to do these checks, really helps one understand all the systems. Hopefully the data points noted are helpful to others diagnosing and determining what is "normal". Voltage drop checks are new to me.
     
  12. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
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    I reversed the ground wires to the switch to see what difference it makes, and still get the same voltage measure across the two grounds when the switch is off, so the order of connection makes no difference. Not what I expected.
     

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