I am saddened to see the violence going on in Bahrain. I, along with several other Fchatters was fortunate enough to visit Bahrain for the 2008 Grand Prix. We found wonderful people everywhere we went and saw nothing to give rise to protests. There are not many native Bahrainis and we were given to understand that they were very well provided for in terms of state assistance, especially with regard to benefits and healthcare. Bahrain is as progressive socially as anywhere in the Middle East and the unrest appears to come out nowhere. I feel for the pain that everyone is going through and I especially feel bad for Prince Salman who was the perfect host, and who has worked very hard all his life to create a safe tranquil country for his people.
Unfortunately, the one thing he hasn't given his people is freedom, and his family has given themselves a VERY generous share of the Bahraini treasury. It's a Shia majority, ruled by a Sunni minority. With very strict rules on what you can and cannot say in public. Anything critical of the Khalifas is forbidden. How long would that last in a democratic government that was truly representative of the people? The people of Bahrain would rather seek self determination than live in a gilded cage. And he really doesn't provide much except basic necessities. It's not like every Bahraini citizen is tooling around in a nice car. The ruling families or dictators in these countries are kleptocracies. Your host, Prince Salman, could afford to be gracious...he is a thief. I personally know where his family keeps 17Billion stashed. This money should be benefitting the people of Bahrain, not paying for his yachts and planes and all those palaces while he doles out a few jobs and makes every Bahraini a "satisfied" civil servant. Having mingled with a few of the Bahraini royals during my college years, I can tell you a lot of stories. It's easy to REALLY party with free (stolen) money. If, along the way, you throw a bone or two to some of it on the deserving recipients, that really doesn't make you any better. Gaddafi has built plenty of roads and hospitals too. Sorry, your prince charming is just a greedy frog.
I appreciate your POV but I believe the violence is due to a small group of instigators, funded and encouraged by Iranian interests. It has very little to do with lack of amenities and rights for ordinary Bahrainis. Bahrain is a monarchy and is not in any way democratic, but that is something it has in common with almost all Arab countries. They are all essentially family businesses and in the Bahrain, the "boss" is way more benevolent that other arab leaders. As to the money they have stashed away, I guess it's theirs to do with what they wish. In an ideal world, socialized democracy would be great, but human nature is not good at sharing everything for the greater good. IMO a benevolent ruler is better that democratic chaos, especially in a situation where two tribes or sects are vying for power.
Unfortunately the way to orderly democracy with peace and calm is fraught with chaos and violence. This is an unavoidable intermediate step, unfortunately. A benevolent dictator does not have to be a thief, or, if he must dip his hand in the till, he doesn't have to do it to the extent that the Arab monarchs have done. It's good to be the king.
It will always be a small group simply because the majority of the populace, even though they support the movement, are too scared of losing their lives, their loved ones, their livelihoods, etc. Iran is behind it, because they are Shi'a, like Iran's vast majority. However it is funded, fact is that the current regime needs to be overthrown in order for there to be democracy. And, people at the top shouldn't consider the resources of the country to be their personal piggy bank. That makes them thieves, regardless of their Eton and Harrow backgrounds.
There is no democracy in the arab middle east. There will never be. Ironically the closest thing to middle east democracy, outside of Israel, is the non-arabic Iran, and that is more of a theocracy overseeing a limited democracy. Bahrain is a tiny little country and it has been ruled by the same family for centuries. I doubt that democracy will be a change for the better in Bahrain. It is a western conceit that democracy is for everyone. It simply does not work in eons old societies where tribalism and paternalism have worked for as long as anyone cares to remember. The trouble with the Middle East is that the British left their ugly footprints all over the region and essentially drew random borders that bore no relation to where tribal groups lived and governed themselves. Your own Cyprus is a hodgepodge of British influence overlaid over the original history of the island and it is now also occupied by the Turks to add insult to injury.
Look at Egypt. It could happen. Now that's a pretty arrogant statement. How do you know? You don't. You can't, possibly. So why try to come across like you do? Iran is not a model by any means. However tiny it may be, the people there have a right to self-determination, as do people everywhere. Who are you to decide that they should never enjoy the benefits of democracy. Why? No, it is a western conceit that democracy can be imposed on others by force, when there are ulterior motives involved, like access to cheap oil, or a foothold for air bases. When the desire to be democratic comes from within, there is nothing wrong with pursuing it. It actually can work very well. Tribal elders in many societies have been selected to make decisions, which are often made by majority vote. This is the hallmark of a democratic society, electing rulers, voting, committee discussions and decisions. True, but that's in the past. Time to move on. Those who benefited from this arrangement are now in power, and immensely wealthy. They are doing their best to stop the system from changing. True. But are you insisting that because it has been this way for a while, it should continue to remain like this indefinitely? That seems to be your argument...to leave things alone? I suspect this thread belongs in Politics and Religion...
Yes, you're right, it does, now please someone post some Bahrain car pics, there is enough drama in our daily lives that we have to read about it when we come here to relax and get away from it all. S
No pics, but early '90s I was in Manama and saw the Testarossa given to one of the Khalifas as a high school graduation gift. He was trying to use it as a four wheel drive...which the car didn't really like very much. He also had a an accident with it that kinked the bonnet a couple of weeks later. Also saw the 456 GT prototype in a mud-brown color undergoing testing on the causeway. Italian PROVA plates, chain-smoking test-driver, lots of telemetry equipment, the real deal. I raced it for a bit in my borrowed 911, but he didn't really want to play. We had coffee in that tall tower in the middle afterwards.
Zack I appreciate your opinions, but I don't necessarily agree with them. Where I live, that is just fine. In fact I will rigorously defend your right to your opinion, no matter how asinine it may be.
Sir, I'm glad you are certain in your opinion that you have everything all figured out. So, why don't you come on up to P&R and express yourself? Dale
Hey Dale I spend some time there and I post my very subjective thoughts often. This ME forum post was simply to express sadness at the situation in Bahrain and the difficult times its people, both in the royal family and in general, are facing. I wasn't expecting to get into a debate with my now good friend Zach, but, hey, it's a forum! and as we all know, forum happens
Thanks 410SA. I too respect your right to voice your opinions, although I can't help but wonder if those opinions were simply bought by the debonair prince using his "divine right" to dip into Bahrain's treasury and show you a good time when you visited? Am I correct in thinking that you don't want the people of Bahrain to have this right to voice their opinions, as well as other freedoms? I don't disagree with you about Iran's influence. It is a risk that has to be taken. I was just watching Benjamin Netanyahu on TV--he said the same thing. Both America and Iran cheered over Egypt...but obviously they have contradictory aims. I hope the forces of true democracy win. Again, I am not sure of your stance, but I wonder if you would prefer that things simply don't change. I don't share that view. I do think that all the monarchs in the Middle East are thieves. Again, I think you disagree. Oh well. I am sad about the turmoil in these countries as well, but my sympathies lie with the people, not with the thieves who have been keeping them under their thumb.
I bought a natural gas powered car for my daily driver. Solves the basic problem. However, sooner or later we are going to have to switch our power source, and my guess is sooner rather than later. Once again, we'll be on the wrong side of the issue, I suspect when it comes to these people's choices for freedom. Never fails. The power of money seems to eclipse any thoughts of doing the right thing. Art
I leave the topic open. I think interesting debate came out of the whole thing, and I think I could add some more to it but, it's not P&R.
Well, here is how it works. The Sheikhs get a cut of the oil money and the rest goes to their masters in the West. On paper, the money is the Sheikhs' but in actuality the money belongs to the governments and bankers of the West. Saudi Arabia has a trillion dollars invested in the US and if King Abdullah tried to take it out to spend it in Saudi Arabia, then King Abdullah would be replaced by rebels faster than you can say Ghaddafi.
Zack, I also couldn't agree more with your statements. 410SA, Yes the situation is unfortunate. However, would your feelings be different had you not received the same treatment from the crown Prince?
The invitation to Bahrain from the Crown Prince was one of those once in a lifetime opportunities to experience something I would ordinarily never consider. However the situation in Bahrain today is simply dreadful for everybody concerned. I cannot help but believe that the riots and demonstrations have outside instigators. During our visit we met many Bahrainis that had no connection to the ruling family. We toured freely on our own, and visited the Great Mosque, museums, shopping malls and wandered around the market in the old part of the city. The people we met and spoke with were gracious kind and apparently quite happy. We did not encounter anyone who criticized the rulers or complained about a lack of personal liberty. We saw no signs of abject poverty. Coincidentally, my wife's cousin was a pilot for the local airline at the time and he was living in Manama. He told us that there were literally 4 non Bahrainis for each local living in Bahrain, to satisfy the demand for labor. Bahrainis received job preference and were completely covered from a social services POV. Our several days there were enlightening, especially with regard to the role of women, who seemed to be freely able to work and be an active part of society, unlike Bahrain's neighbor, Saudi Arabia where women are precluded from everything including driving. As I said earlier, it is really sad to see this small nation beset by riots and unrest, regardless of who is involved.
Well the problem is that they know Oil money will not be coming forever so they had to stop buying 1000's of pink Lambos and started investing in Euro/US/Asian companies. If they invested all into their own infrastructure, it is not certain where the money would come from in a 100 years. These countries seem to have invested a lot into tourism to be an important source of revenue for the future but and this is a honest question, how often would you go back to Dubai or Ryadh after going once if that?
Basically, the WSJ did the job I was lazy to do (I wanted to make a post themed around the issues developped in the article below). http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704116404576262744106483816.html
