Bahrain race discussion - Spoilers likely

Pete,

Give me a break !!

The Bridgies are **** end of story, **** this PC crap , call a spade a shovel ffs

I HATE McLaren, always have always will, coz RD is a whining wanker!

The Ferrari chassis has been in the wind tunnel 24hrs a day for months so I think they know exactly how much downforce it is exerting on the pathetic Bridgestones.

We ALL know that if you take two identical cars and put good tyres on one and soso tyres on the other the good tyres one will lap in a much better time...THAT'S IT IN A NUTSHELL

I'm sending over some Pirellis for them to try

can't be any worse

Only breakdowns can stop us from winning and it looks like they are all coming to visit us in one year!!

BTW McLaren is about as much kiwi as Vegemite is Aussie (owned by other country)

 

Yes aware of that ... infact Marlboro instigated that RD's (and Barnard's) team Project 4 was to take over McLaren (about 15 years after Bruce's death) ... so really we are lucky the name did not get lost.

BUT I still proud of the team that Bruce started

I am calling a spade a spade ... you guys seem to scared too say the F2005 is **** ... I'm not. Like the F2003GA (and the F2004m) the F2005 is a piece of cr@p ... not worthy of the name, should be pushed into the sea, along with the designers in weighed down sacks . Remember the F2005 was designed for those Bridgestones ... and the Bridgestones designed for that car, so the package is cr@p!!!

BUT whose fault is that ... Ferrari management for their head in the sand lets keep the same team forever attitude. The only thing I really know about motorracing is that is exactly the attitude for failure and only works for a very short period ... and the question is?. Have we passed that period?

Pete

 

Round 6 Pete, Round 6....

Wait till a few Euro races are done. The real picture will emerge.

Especially with the 3 week testing on now

 

But aren't you guys glad that somebody else is winning?!

 

Yeah, yeah ofcourse ... but heck work is boring ... something else to watch, ie. Ferrari digging themselves out of this hole. Yep made my mind up, definitely watching the next race!

I'm more glad that we may have a battle to the WC ... assuming Renault do not just walk the rest of the year.

Note: Imperial, again I was not against Ferrari winning ever race, it was the way they won that made it boring ... atleast racing has returned to some degree.
Pete

 

I stand corrected. Even though, Jarno did a fantastic job to race under that emotional strain!

And as for Fisi.....
To put it simply, he wont be happy untill he is racing for Ferrari. So therefore, his true potential will not be unleashed untill that day. Alot of drivers would race with any competitive team, but Fisi is known to focus on driving for Ferrari, one day. Its a goal for him, and if the opportunity came up, watch him do a Button/Williams move on Renault......

 

I kept saying it, the rest of the field will catch up and, StephenS, I hope you remember my comments after the inagural GP where I said the rest of the grid has caught up to Ferrari in development and THAT is the key. Ferrari was years ahead, now Renault seems to be ahead.
The paramount difference here is Michelin (they're michelins watt, not toyos) are simply better racing tires and that comes down to how many development miles Michelin is acquiring through its teams; Bridgestone have caught themselves out.
The cooler EURO tracks may help but Ferrari is still off pace regardless of how you try to justify their (lack of) performance.
This isn't negative, it's fact.
As to Minardi in the sport, I too don't see the point but none of us have the nickel nor balls to run an F1 team (or I assume we would) so it's unfair to be so (hypo)critical; for the money, I'd be in endurance racing, trying to win LeMans outright, but nothing has the same prestige, allure and nuance of F1 so I can see why someone who's doing the F1 gig wants to stay. And let's not forget, the car are within the 107 rule, so they're "fast enough."
Alonso WDChampion 2005!

 

I agree with you mate. As always, a man of sense and true burning tifoso passion!
Looking at Schumacher's tyres post retirement and comparing them with Alonso's (especially when he had his first stop) was pretty harrowing. Did anyone notice the vastly different erosion? Alonso's looked fresh out of the wrapper.

I'm not loath to say a new Ferrari can't cut the mustard. There was enough suffering in the 90s to account for that. But our biggest hurdles are now reliability (inevitable, since we're practically bringing an infant to a teenager's footrace) and of course the bloody tyres. I think the season is long enough for Ferrari to work on the former - the latter: who the f* knows? It's not a happy prospect having to wait for an outside supplier to get their sh*t together. As a racing fan I'm unhappy to see what is essentially the most important part of the car to be in the hands of someone else. As a tifoso I want bridgestone CEO blood.

Both Schumacher and Rubens showed some decent speed at the beginning of the race. I don't see why some of you are so quick to think Ferrari has dropped the ball completely, especially after the professionalism the team has shown in the past few years.

 

Yeah. It must be the tires.

How about the drivers? It's about time your beloved Schumacher got exposed for NOT being the "greatest driver to strap on a helmet". Calling him such is like saying that Tom Cruise is the greatest actor ever. Just as Cruise has always been fortunate to land good roles, Schumacher has always been fortunate to end up in well funded rides with great cars. Don't get me wrong, he is a good driver - just not the greatest.

Think I am full of crap? Try this: If Michael Schumacher is soooooo good, put him and Barrichello in Minardis. If they are soooooo good, they should be able to make chicken salad out of what everyone considers to be chicken ****t. This "there's bugs in the 2005 car" excuse is crap too. How long has Ferrari had to develop the new car? Just curious, but haven't Renault and Toyota also had the same amount of time to develop their cars?? Oh, and before I forget, doesn't Ferrari have nearly all the money in Italy to spend on a racing budget?

Face it. The rules changes finally leveled the playing field and made F1 worth watching again. Ferrari has been reduced to the category of "Also Ran" after 3 races. If it were just one race, I say it's a fluke. Three races, it's no fluke. While F1 is still a drag race with a corner at the end, followed by a game of "follow the leader", at least there's a new winner at Turn One and a new guy for everyone to follow around for an hour.

Disclaimer: I personally have nothing against Ferrari, Schumacher, Barrichello or even Jean Todt. It just makes me chuckle when people go through a season wearing rose (or is it Rosso?) colored glasses and can't see the real truth.

 

I think your right in some respects, others not. On race day in Melbourne, track temp was 16C. Everyone was saying how weird it was, because one reason Melb has the 1st gig is because of the normally good weather at that time. But it wasnt. Where was Ferrari? 2ND??? From 11th to 2nd?? Thats my point.
And not to mention the 3 weeks now to test, so they might still have a good chance. Dont set yourself to eat your words.....

Anything could happen. The beauty of F1 at the moment....

 

Er, MS did exactly that when he moved from Benetton to the hopeless Ferrari team back in the 90's. Barrichello on the other hand was gifted a perfect car ...

I cannot believe some of you have such short memories ... give me a break and leave the adult sport to the rest of us. MS (and Todt) made Ferrari what it is, not the other way around. The Ferraris of the 90's were no where near the all dominating machines that they we were lucky to witness in the recent early 2000's.

Pete

 

only half the package is crap and that's the big black donuts at each corner

I was never so glad to see the back of a designer as I was of seeing Barnard leave, all he did was take away from Ferrari a lot of money with NOTHING to show for it!

 

Melbourne? I can't explain that but where was Schumi? My point is, we're seeing Toyota the podium, that's unprecedented, and we're seeing Ferrari mid pack, that's startling. My comments, are simply to spotlight the possibility that F1's going through one of it life cycle evolutions and that usually means the dominant forces are toppled.
The F2005 is a better car but is it good enough? At this point, I can't say because this was its debut, and there will always be problems on initial outings. So it would be unfair to make any critique of the car, it's first time out. None the less, I still forsee tires to be the hurdle.
Part of the problem with this season, is Ferrari's adherance to their usual midseason new car debut, it hasn't worked for them this year and that caught them off (I believe). There's also the issue, that now, they've hurridly debuted the car, and lost out on points - it's possible that the F2004M could have at least finished in the points, for one driver.
The rule changes have certainly hurt Ferrari but the F2005 could be answer; I suspect they did most of the tire development on the new chassis, which, I hope, will bear brighter prospects.
As to eating my words, I fully accept the risk. To that end, you heard it here first, Alonso for Champion in '05.

 

Don't even bother explaining. You are a lost cause.
You think there are no team orders at Renault?
You don't think Flavio blatantly favors Alonso over GF?
Case and point you just wanted to crib about Ferrari winning. And now when another team do the same thing, it is racing. GF has been given bad cars with Mechanical problems on purpose by Renault. They do not want Alonso to be faced with competition from within the team.

It would only be real racing if Renault let GF race Alonso
.... SOUND FAMILIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will let Scuderia Ferrari do the talking.

 

I will say that Alonso is Renault's Golden Boy, but Fisi has sat on pole and won the Aussie GP - what happened there?
Unless you've got proof that Fisi gets the dog, I'd say you should keep the tinfoil hat off.

 

Good post and point taken but you still fail to read, ie:

Thus I do not like watching anybody win every race and any team play team orders ... whether it has been around since Adam first farted or not

Pete

 

Heck John you could be right ... but I think Bridgestone now do what Ferrari tell them, thus whose fault is it really. I see Bridgestone now as Ferrari puppets.

Hmmm, I have a lot of respect for Barnard, EXCEPT that he refused to work in Italy and thus we had a chassis designed in a separate country to the mechanicals ... bloody stupid, so yes I agree. But he was/is a bloody clever chap

Pete

 

No we need another thread for this discussion...

 

It was sarcasm meant for PSk. Listen, I going to tell you something. It is fairly important...

When adults are speaking, children should not intervene.

For proof go to...

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54392

 

Er... My memory is doing just fine. If I am not mistaken, it was Ferrari's decision to recommit themselves (and finances) to building a winning race team. You are correct in that they really had not done "Jack" since Niki Lauda.

Ferrari sells cars so they can go racing, unlike other car companies who race to build a better street car. That said, due to the weak economy and resulting poor sales of F-Cars in the early/mid '90's, the bucks weren't there to fund a superior race team. They slogged along with mediocre drivers driving mediocre hardware. I don't think anyone here will dispute that. I also don't think anyone willdispute that sales of F-cars are much better than 10 years ago and that the bucks are now there to fund a superior race team

Schumacher is far from mediocre, but he ain't God. If he were truly "the best to ever strap on a helmet" he could even make the hapless Minardi a winner.

This tire excuse is a joke. You guys are kidding yourselves if you think the "cooler Euro tracks" will benefit the Bridgestones and suddenly right what's wrong with the Ferraris. Sort of like the Tampa Bay Buccaneers using the "we suck at stadiums where the temperatures are under 40 degrees" excuse a few years ago until Gruden came along and got them to realize that it's cold on both sides of the 50-yard line. Correct me if I am wrong, but won't the Michelin shod cars also be racing on the same cooler tracks and also enjoy the same benefits?

The excuses have got to stop. It's time for the Ferrari boys to start burning the midnight oil and doing their homework because for the last six months it looks like Renault and Toyota have done theirs.

 

You're right, us kids get annoyed at having to repeat ourselves over and over while you adjust your ear piece volume.

 

He would ... given time, just like he made the Ferrari a winner. That was my point.

Unfortunately nowadays you cannot do a Fangio ... and that is due to the fact that cars are adjustable now (and aero plays are much larger part than simply frontal area). But I can pretty much garantee that he would be faster than anybody on the grid in the same car ... just like Fangio.

Thus with MS driving for Minardi, sponsors would come as would the engineers and eventually Minardi would be winning ... it might take 10 years but it would happen. It took Ferrari 5 years (I think) to make winning common again.

Unfortunately (actually I like this fact) not all F1 cars are made equal, thus we always have to look a little hard to see who can really drive and who are just been carried by a quick car ... MS in 2002 and 2004 cruised home in a superior car ... but there have been many years where he performed miracles in far from superior Ferraris. Not quite Minardis but it was bloody impressive IMO.

Pete

 

No, the car is not even close to good enough. It would be akin to putting a good driver in a 360cs and a great driver in a camry the good driver will win no matter how skilled you are you can only drive a car at the max of 100%.

Watch the Renault and then the Minardi for a bit, the Renault is smooth it can brake later get on the gas quicker hold the line and turn better as well as reach a higher speed. Conversely the minardi is bouncing around is slower in both acceleration and top speed and just all around unsettled.

I suggest you go to the racetrack, take a sports car and a commuter with comparable speed and you will quickly see how much the “package” comes into play.

 

Can't you guys discuss this at minardichat.com?

 

Correction: www.minardi.it (follow the links to the forum) ... I'm actually a member and posted a couple of times

Pete