Bahrain race discussion - Spoilers likely

Another season, another dominant car. *GROAN* 3 wire to wire victories, there hasn't been anything close to a battle up front all year. At least last year Schumacher had to resort to various tactics and strategies to win. This year is looking more and more like a total white wash. There are good battles further back, BUT THERE ALWAYS WAS. The new rules are looking horrendous to me after 3 races.

 

Korr:

I raced for roger slatter (importer of Laverda), Vanguard Engineering, Sports Racing Motorcycles (British Ducati Importer) and others. Several Championships in the 70s and 80s, with one season where I won 15 of the 16 races I started. Having said that, I've got to say that Tom's right, you don't know what you're talking about. Racing is a combination, a great vehicle on poor tires isn't going to be able to do much. However, those guys in any other lesser series would be absolutely stunning. At this level, at this time, they're having problems. Just like Lotus did, shortly after they won a championship in the early 70s. Those things happen, and if everyone got up and took their toys away after not being competitive, you'd have grids of 3, 4 vehicles, and that wouldn't be much fun would it?

Tillman: I hope you understood the sarcasm in my comment, if not, I'd suggest something to lift your comprehension level.

Art

 

The one thing I do know is that a Ferrari factory team will always race in F1. So atleast I can wait for another world championship. I had waited for two decades before. I will just have to wait again. Ferrari will be back.

 

what a great season!!! did you see schu's tyres? he was history anyway. those renaults and toyos rock!! what happened to fishyfellah?

even quali was fun altho 3 am for the 2nd round was a little early i didnt make it until 3.50 am..

de la rosa was hilarious!!!!

only bummer was imperial's pal sato yet again letting him down

 

Only a few laps to go and Massa was 7th, Rubens 8th, Villeneuve 9th and Coulthard 10th. Rubens was lapping 1.38.00 because his tyres were finished and JV doing 1.33.00-1.34.00 was able to catch him.
DC was to close JV and he hit the back of the car for no reason. (we didn't see it live)
After that incident he could feel something wrong at the back of the car.
Damage rear suspension

 

Its Fisichella. His engine started to fail on lap two. (engine lost power)

 

It seems to me that Ferrari's problem is that at least one of the other teams has truly gotten their sh__ together. In 2003 McLaren and Williams had good cars that were not quite great so Ferrari was able to deal with their own issues in a orderly fashion and stay in the hunt. Now, however, Renault has a great car on their hands and Ferrari have to take risks to get back up front. Thus, they race the 2005 before they are really ready, MS has to drive harder and then wears tires quicker and has more off track excursions, and a bunch of other things that we don't even see.

 

Things to note:

All of Ferraris WCCs that have been won with Schumi were never, at any point, as far behind as they are currently. In 2003 they were at max 23 points behind McLaren in the early season.

Schumi has never been 24 points behind during the season and won a WDC.

If they take both titles I will be amazed.

Other things to note:

Toyota actually lessened the gap between them and Renault. That is definitely a close fight, if they can get some inspired performances by Trulli and Schumacher this might become an interesting season.

 

Hopefully, but maybe not this year.

I was amazed to watch Ferrari become arrogant (even Todt) and to start talking like they were the only real race team on the grid ... thus I fully expected them to fall on their self inflated attitude like they have this year (so far).

In previous years they have been more humble and worked away at their job ... like all humans they got a little cocky, heck we all suffer from that

Now this is not necessarily the cause of their problems ... BUT contentment is!

There is NO way that you can continue the same design direction for over 5 years in F1 and expect to have a competitive car ... and this is exactly what Ferrari have been doing. They have been refining and refining the same design goals and probably got it close to perfection with the F2004. BUT time for a massive regroup and new thoughts and direction.

Ferrari are a fantastic race team and I fully expect them to make this F2005 a better car ... BUT if they do not start thinking more laterially and start exploring new design directions ... guess what?, it is another teams time to shine. That is the law of motorsport.

I do hope I am wrong (for MS's sake) but I do not believe we will win this year as the car is way off being competitive. You can see this in how slow RB was (before his problems) thus MS was driving the **** out of his car to look so good ... this does not equate well for the current single tyre and 2 meeting engine rules. When RB is as fast as MS then we know we have a car and tyre package that is working well, one that can sustain the performance most of the race long.

What I am most concerned about is I was hoping MS would retire on a high, if Ferrari management are a little lost about how to make a fast car with these new rules then this may not happen ... and not fair (but heck what has fair got to do with it ).

Anyway interesting season ... and did think about watching that race a few times, but didn't . Come on Ferrari, don't panic but we need another second! (a lap)
Pete
ps: I am also expecting another McLaren run of championships soon ... they have done their regrouping and their cars are slowly getting better, and they know how to win. Williams on the other hand still seem a little lost and I am not sure whether the WC virgins Renault can keep it together against the might of McLaren (over the next few years).

 

You seem to hold Mclaren is high esteem there...
They seem to have the "car" at the moment, but that is only judging off the past two races. And those two races have one common feature. They are both "Hot" races. Melbourne was not a specifically "hot" race, and Mclaren failed to show a dominating performance. It could be that Mclaren have an incredibly efficient car, in terms of cooling. Maybe then can really ring the neck out of them, and be assured that behind the driver, is a Newey designed cooling system.
And one other thing. How do you rate Mclarens qualifying performance? Enough said.
IMO, Kimi needs to get his **** together, and follow through with some wins, and the "Bogota Fat Boy" (Tm) needs to get back in the car, stop the whinging and get on with the job.

I think that a teams performance cannot be totally measured until we get to about round 6. After that, they have ran in a variety of conditions and have had time to sort out minor niggles.

But in the interim, Renault is looking strong. Toyota are looking amazing.
Williams needs to sort out their downforce issues. BAR needs to get its **** together. Same with Ferrari, and Sauber.

I do agree with you that is an interesting season.

And if you miss a race, ill be happy to mail off a video to you!

*Side note* Bought a 70' GTV1750 yesterday. Will post pics when i get it.

 

I do ... being a Kiwi and watching their 80's, etc. efforts. ... but I agree with everything you pointed out, ie. they are not their yet, but I believe they are on the upward slope

Good point and for some reason it is not until the European rounds that we really know who is where, etc.

Yep and it is great to watch ... I guess to be a perfect season we need to see Renault under some pressure, but as they are WC virgins they will pile it on themselves later in the year

Thanks but no need, I just have to get off my lazy arse and program the video machine ... which my wife pushed me to do atleast twice last night. I'll start watching from the next one on ...

Awesome!
Pete

 

And just another point to add to my comment of Renault being strong, IMO, Renault is a "one-man show"

Fisi to me, is the guy that promises the world, and never delivered. We may never know his true potential unless his sits his a55 in a Ferrari. He has always been livid that he is not driving for the Italian team, and i think that is what is blocking him from possibly breaking the performance cap that he seems to have.

Fair enough, Melbourne was his. But you wait, Fisi always loses it down towards the end of the season. He seems very prone to emotion, and you can see that in his driving. Sepang, he lost a close friend. But like i said, this is the start of the season. If Fisi keeps retiring/not come first, he will lose it. If FA keeps it up, this WILL happen.

My 2 c.

 

I do not think that Renault are WC virgins. The Benetton team was primarily a Renault outfit ever since the days of Michael winning two back to back championships. Their drive to win and taste of victory has its roots in the 1994 and 1995 season.

 

I am afraid the 2003 season has nothing to do with the 2005 season

Number of races in 2003: 16
Number of races in 2005: 19

Different rules and regulations.

Hence your arguement that Ferrari will find it harder to come back is pointless.

Anyway... back to the discussion...

Ferrari 1 - 2 San Marino!!!

 

Do you fail to see the contradiction in these two quotes?

First of all, most of Benetton/Renault staff has been turned over since 1994-1995. IMO, Ranault will collapse mid season. Usually in F1, the "real" racing dosn't start till the Euro rounds. You wait to Williams sorts out its downforce issues. They will be a force. And you wait till Mclaren gets into the Euro rounds, they will be a force too. Not to mention, a team consists of TWO drivers. And when one is constantly whinging that his car color is not red, it only leaves Alonso to do the job.

 

'94 season Benetton was powered by Ford ... but I read your point.

The difference is the name on the team and thus the enormous company pressure they did not have as a Benetton named team back in '95. Renault will be winding on the pressure ... and I do wish the team all the best. May the best team win, is what it is about.

Pete

 

Renault, Alonso and Flavio Briatore can go to absolute hell in my opinion. I hope they collapse in mid season and Ferrari comes back.

The point I was trying to make is that 2003 had only 16 races, and 2005 has 19. There is more time for Ferrari to mount a come back.

True. But Renault still know what it feels like to win after the 95 season. most of the Benetton outfit did roll over into the current Renault outfit.

 

I knew all the changes in F1 would affect Ferrari but I didn't think it would be this drastic. I don't care about how other teams do at the track at all really. I'm in it for Ferrari. I don't wish for them to fail but for Ferrari to succeed. I'm eager to get good competition and I like a good fight. I just don't understand how so many things went against us in such a short time. I will keep the faith and hope for improvement.

 

I do not believe it has as much to do with the rule changes as you suggest. A team cannot continue to design the best car on the grid forever ... the laws of statistics, etc. unfortunately mean that either:
- They design a dud, OR
- The other teams catch up and maybe do a better job.

This is what I believe has happened to Ferrari. 5 years on the trott is bloody impressive, this poor start to the season (and more importantly and off pace new car) was on the cards as nothing has changed at Ferrari. Same design team with the same thoughts. A new person with fresh ideas is probably over due IMO.

Me too .

Pete

 

You might find that one of the reasons for Ferrari's slump is because of BRIDGESTONE and their lack of performance in regards to lasting a whole race. IIRC, when the tire changes were in place, the bridgestones on the Ferrari's used to be near slicks when they came in for their 1st stops. And you could see that with Rubens in the race. He romped the field at the start, but lost it at the end. Yep, the tyres gave out.....

I think that Bridgestone is playing a big part here....

 

I agree. The statistics really weren't related to the statement that 'If they take both titles I'll be amazed.'

The reasoning behind that is that they don't have the fastest car right now. Michael on low fuel in the early race was the only way it could keep even with the Renault. Of course, if they increase pace slightly and increase reliabilty greatly then they might be *even* with Renault.

WCC: 26 points adrift.
WDC: 24 points adrift (Schumi).

All this with what is conceivably the 2nd-3rd-4th fastest car at this point (Renault, McLaren, & Toyota being the other contenders).

New car with poor reliability.

I'm just wondering if they'll be able to beat McLaren.

 

I think Montezemula is going to start cracking some heads like he did in '03 after Schumacher was lapped in Hungary. The three weeks off is exactly what they need. I think they will come back very strong. Long way to go....

 

I agree Mike, but tyres also are affected greatly by the amount of traction the chassis has and naturally how much grip.

If the F2005 is very poor aerodynamically (downforce wise ... compared to the Renault say) then Ferrari are making Bridgestone look bad. Not all Michelin tyred cars are quick, thus I have to assume that the fast cars at the moment have found a little more grip out of their chassis than the rest ... look for example how Williams are struggling with race pace.

Anyway most of the problem may be the Bridgestones ... but Ferrari engineered the one team (effectively) supplier situation, thus Bridgestone effectively = Ferrari as they work so closely together that they are one and the same. I also do not have any simpathy for the team in the whinging and moaning about lack of other teams to help the testing ... er, that monopoly of the Bridgestones won them plenty in the past, they did not think ahead, just played the usual Italian game of keeping everything the same ... and letting the others catch up.

Pete

 

Malaysian= his car was understeering everywhere; so there was no grip at all and he was 2 seconds slower than the race pace + incident with MW.
Bahrain= His engine failed

Give him a break.
As for FA, 0 problems with his car since the season has started. GF is still 3rd in the championship and you never know what could happen, he could win the next 2 races.

 

IIRC, it was Trulli who lost a friend. I believe the friend was a firefighter.