Bahrain Qualifying ***warning***spoiler***

Absolutely not - to think such is putting him down - he's probably in better shape than most of the drivers, he's got an outlook that's superior to others, he's a definite TEAM player - he thinks of everyone not himself. I think rather the contrary, he's got a great year ahead and I get a big chuckle thinking about those who said he was "washed-up".

Viva Michael, Viva Ferrari!

Carol

 

Just watched quali....YeAH!!! BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!


That was a lot of fun. More passing in quali then during last years races...well not quite, but exciting nonetheless.

The Ferrari looks surprisingly smooth and Massa was impressive as well.

 

Yeah, I really enjoyed the new qualifying and imo, allowing teams to change tires is what racing is all about. If you want to nurse a set for the 3 days it should be called an enduro, not F1.
Go Ferrari, glad to see MS's jubilation and respect for his team at the end.

 

While I respect you opinion greatly, but what I perceive as your lack of respect for the 7 time WDC just plain kills me. It is true that Senna was a great driver, but MS is at least as great as Senna was if not better in his own right. We can all claim the same thing with Clark, G. Villenuve as you have for Senna. Who knows that type of records would they have today if they had not died? Senna is DEAD, he has been dead for the past 12 years. So let the man RIP and honor him for what he has done and achieved without taking away the achievements of active drivers of today. Another thing about the 1994 season, MS was the points leader when Senna died at Imola, who can say for sure that MS would not have been WC that year even if Senna had lived. Fact is, s**t happens, as Senna's William may have DNF in half of the races that year for all we know. The "what if" are just a fantasy, not reality. MS did not kill Senna so he can be WC and so he can break all these records, again, give him the credit and the respect a 7 time WDC deserves.

It is a young season and a long one. Let's see what happens first before handing out the WDC and WCC already, the first race of the year has not even started yet for crying out loud. But one must admit, after the tough 2005 season, the 248F1s and the 2006 season looks pretty promising so far. Forza Ferrari!!

 

This is going to be the closest year in a VERY long time!

 

No need to take it so personal. Andreas was just making a factual statement - Senna got 65 poles in 160 odd races while Michael has the same in 220 odd races. So that's what he is refering to.

I am pretty sure that Andreas is a MS fan like you after Eddie Irvine that is

 

To be more exact, Senna did his 65 poles in 161 appearances, while Schumacher needed 232. For comparison's sake Senna was still better in qualifying. No one will equal those statistics in that little time. In addition Senna still holds the modern day mark for most consecutive laps lead with over 240 in the 1988 season and that was with the multiple World Champion (Prost) as a teammate in equal equipment. Schumacher never got higher than 140 consecutive laps in 1994.

No one will ever forget Monaco when he utterly destroyed Prost in qualifying by over 1.5 seconds and they kept showing that shot of Ron Dennis laughing on the pit wall uncontrollably.

No one will ever match Senna's accomplishments in qualifying.

 

Since you want to approach this by numbers, there are three drivers in the history of Formula One that has a better pole/GP started ratio than Senna. According to your stats, Senna's pole/GP starts is 65/161 = 40.3%. The great Juan Manuel Fangio has 27 poles in 51 races which is a 52.9%. Jim Clark has 32 poles in 72 starts = 44.4%. Alberto Ascari has 14 poles in 32 starts = 43.7%. Again, if you go the overall poles achieved by a single driver, Schumacher has now matched Senna's total and will probably surpass Senna by the end of the 06' season. And if you want to go by percentage as you had done, JM Fangio has the best stat followed by Jim Clark and Alberto Ascari. Again, Senna was a great driver but that is it. To place him ahead of the other great drivers in history is just plain wrong and is nothing but a complete lack of respect of other great drivers. As for laps lead, that is a completely useless stat as according to mathmatics, a driver can have that record and not win a WDC.

By the same token, Senna will never ever match what Schumacher has and will have done by the time he retires.

 

Nothing personal at all. Andreas, Pete and I have had several of these type of discussions before. We are just fans talking F1, that's all.

 

Valid points but I was focusing more on modern day drivers from the last 30 years. Again comparisons are difficult and sometimes useless between different eras and sometime important facts are forgotten. Case in point was Fangio's titles. When Schumacher's run was getting close to Fangio's title record there were all sorts of negative stats thrown about to attempt to prove that Schumacher wasn't a worthy match for Fangio, this, despite the often ignored fact that Fangio wouldn't have won at least one title if he hadn't parked his damaged race car in the pits and told his teammate to go "grab a cup of coffee" so he could win another title in someone else's car.

Also if you look at different era's it wasn't until the late 70's or early 80's that the level of quality across the entire F1 grid became so narrow. Back in the day of Ascari and Fangio the gaps between the fast factory cars and the privateers or gentleman racers was quite substantial in terms of performance. According to David Hobbs in one of his Speed Documentaries it wasn't uncommmon for one team to lap the entire field several times in the course of a two hour gp race. Historians have always raised the question of the level of competition which Fangio and Ascari faced during their dominance.

The number of laps led statistic may not be important but of the top 10 people on the list, only Raikkonen (2005) hasn't won a title and I am willing to bet before he retires he will have at least one title. The list includes a whose who of great world champions including Ascari, Mansell, Clark, Senna, Prost, Lauda, Stewart, and Schumacher.

I am not trying to take anything away from MS or place anyone else ahead of him. Statistically he will go down as the best ever. No arguing that fact! I hold MS and Senna in equal awe. Their successes are quite different. I subtract points from Senna in that he never had the ability to build a team like Schumacher from the ground up. Hence I subtract points from MS because he never has had (either by design or pure chance) to compete with a multiple world champion on the same team with the same equipment.

 

i'm just so relieved. well, if u guys are talking about the percentage of Senna V schumi in terms of pole, lets not forget the fact that the quali system has been changed over and over again since what....2000? so, when the cars get into parc ferme, no refuelling and tyre changes allowed, it's all about the right strategy, not the fastest car on pole. anyways, heck...less than 2 hours to go...hoping for the best!

 

Hehe. I got two Eddie Irvine helmets and one MS helmet. And nobody else's. I think that tells it right there.

Seriously my point was more about the fact that the pole position has lost a lot of its glory due to refueling. That's no disrespect to MS. Getting the pole still is an accomplishment, but it ain't the same anymore.

Actually while mulling this over I was wondering whether the grid's dead last (well it was Kimi, but forget that, say one of the Aguri boys) could actually accomplish pole? Matchett always uses some "magic" formula of how many kilos of fuel translate into tenths of seconds. Anybody remember the heuristic? Based on that and the qualifying time we could figure out how far back a driver could actually get pole assuming he does only the warmup and opening lap and then comes in for refueling. Just curious.

As I was watching the race and the Speed guys celebrated Nico Rosberg (who drove fantastically!) and his first point in his first drive and compared him to other guys who managed that in the past, I had similar thoughts (as over MS matching Senna's record): It ain't the same anymore because now you get points for 8th position. The drivers they mentioned who accomplished that feast only got points up to sixth. It is just as pointless (no pun intended) as comparing absolute points when the points system changes over the years.

And before Anthony C. takes away my MS helmet because of my "disrespect": MS has accomplished awesome things in F1 and the seven titles are absolut achievements. Things like points or pole counts have to be put in perspective.

 

*LOL* I guess I will have to send a team of Ninjas to get that helmet away from you now, since everything else I tried had failed.

Exactly, my point is the same all along, from posts in the past to now. Drivers can really only be judged according to era, and against their peers. While it is fun but it is often unrealistic to compare one driver from one era to another.

 

MS himself was the first to cool the press when they asked him how he felt after winning his sixth title and beating Fangio. I forgot his exact words but it was something like he would have never wanted to drive in those cars for safety reasons. Fangio's competition was probably less professional than today, but they had other deamons to wrestle with. Falling out of the cockpit being one of them.

You wouldn't need Ninjas to steal that helmet. It is only a replica. Really just sentimental value.