bad news dealing with ferrarispares

i bought some mounting brackets with ferrarispares (not cheap) for my front bumper and i could not get them to fit, now they will not refund my money (nonrefundable was not disclosed). i have disputed my funds with paypal and posted here for visibility on how these folks do business. question - am i wrong for disputing this?: see the following email trail (reads in reverse email trail)- what do you guys think??

Hi John,
Sorry but like I said no returns as these were made to order and as anyone will tell you in the Fabrication Industry that any items made to order means no returns, as it is up to you to make sure you are ordering the correct items, and I had perseveered with you to try and make sure we were talking about the correct Euro Chassis, as for your now excuse that there is little metal to weld to , as the tubeing is origionally 16 swg and yes if someone ground off the original brackets then it would be quit thin or thickness halved, but any welder would be able to tack on a piece of 16 swg sheet to weld your brackets to, as I have to do it all the time when we are restoring these Chassis either after grinding or through corrosion, as for your Forums I try and have nothing to do with them, and after 30 years in the Ferrari Spares my Customers know and trust me , so again sorry you think like that, so really please do not contact me or give my details to any of your friends as I can manage with out your type of business.

Regards Eddie Walsh

John Asselta wrote:
> Eddie. Well, I took my car, brackets and bumper to the best welder I know of in town who has done work for me. After a long look at the framing on my car, we decided to not do the job. The reason is that when the stock euro bumper brackets were cut off when the car was federalized and the new bumper brackets welded on - it stressed that part of the box framing on the car. The metal where the new brackets are to be welded is very thin and where there may have been good metal to weld to, it is now a bit rusty with gaping holes where the old euro brackets were. Had I had a picture of where these brackets were to be welded to I probably would have not bought them - I assumed that they were to be welded to the SIDE of the framing (where the us bumper shocks were welded on) instead of just before the framing - there is plenty of good metal off to the side - but as we know - this throws off the dimensions. So, I really tried to get these fitted with no avail. I would really hope you would take these back as I cannot use them and I really tried. Most folks on ferrarichat agree that I should be able to return these no problem and think not being able to return them (especially since nonrefundability was not disclosed at time of purchase) is rediculous. So, I give you one more chance to take these back, if not I will dispute the charge on paypal, put your brackets up on ebay and warn otheres on ferrarichat of this experience (and believe me - bad news travels like the plague in the Ferrari community). Sorry it has to come to this, but I have no choice and I really tried. Bottom line, mounting instructions and a pic of where these were to be mounted should have been made available to the buyer beforehand so they know what they are getting into before the purchase - along with a disclosure that they cannot be returned would have been beneficial.
> Sincerely
> John

>
> Hi John,
> Great, the reason I do not cut at an angle is
> all cars have a different angle , as these cars are all hand built
> they ar all slightly different, so if I cut at an angle then your
> bumper could be pointing up or down as mostpeople woul think I had cut
> the correct angle ??, so like I said on previous email mount all
> Brackets on your Bumper and then offer up to car to get the correct
> angle and position, then you can squish to fit Ok.
>
> Regards Eddie Walsh
>
> John Asselta wrote:
>
>> Yes, federalizing a euro car means us bumpers, bumper shocks, safety glass, emissions, crash beams in doors etc. thank you for the pics - that really helped. I see where the brackets are mounted directly in front of the frame member instead of off to the outside like mine are. I did not realize they mounted this way. So, in order to mount your brackets, they must be cut on the backside at an angle, and squished down from round to squarish to mate to the frame member? Is this correct? This is interesting. I am curiouis why you did not send them to me already cut and squared off in the back - that would have made mounting much clearer - or perhaps mounting instructions. Mounted this way, I think I can make them fit with a bit of machining.
>> John
>>
>> Hi John,
>> So if Fedaralising means adding the Shocks
>> then obivious is to just get rid of them ??, I enclose the Photos of
>> my car so you can see what a Euro spec front looks like OK.
>>
>> Regards Eddie Walsh
>>
>> John Asselta wrote:
>>
>>
>>> My car has been federalized - hence the us shocks! Can you send a pic of the euro chassis in your shop? I cannot bolt or weld a plate to anything, I am short 1.5 inches, a plate will just make that difference greater - do you understand that?. I really cannot use these brackets as they are and really hope you would take them back. If I bolt a plate to my existing shocks - the bumper is gong to stick way our from the body of the car! Plus the innermost bolt hole will have to go right thru the exhisting shock and then I cannot get a nut on it because the bolt would be going right thru the shock!
>>> John
>>>

>>>
>>> Hi John,
>>> Well what ever your Chassis is it looks
>>> nothing like a Euro Spec Chassis as like I said they do not have any shocks ??.
>>>
>>> So what I think the best way to get around this is to just
>>> bolt another flat plate to the end of your shocks and then weld my
>>> slotted tubes to it OK.
>>>
>>> Regards Eddie Walsh
>>>
>>> John Asselta wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Here are some pictures of my car configuration Eddie. As you can see, I measured the distance between the shock tubes when mounted on the bumper with the shock tubes pushed all the way out, and that measurement is 27 1/8 inches. I measured the distance of the frame (outer) where the mounts that you sent me are to be mounted (in place of the existing bumper shocks). I measured on the car shock itself and used the inner most holes and using that widest point (looking down the bore of the car shock hole that I measured against and it is in alignment with the frame that I want to mount to as this was the easiest and best way to get an accurate measurement as the fans are in the way). This measurement came out to be 28 3/8 - conservative. So, I have 1 ¼ inch at least that is off. I say at least because I pushed out the shock tubes in an awkward fashion on the bumper to get an oversized reading in case I can force the tubes on the car frame, and where I measured on the cars bumper shocks was a bit on the inside and this measurement is more like 28 5/8. so I am off by a good 1.5 inches. So , this is my dilemma and why I want to send the mounts back to you as I have run out of ideas.....unless you want to make me newer bumper mounts with that offset I was speaking of - ie: mount or make holes much closer to the tube opn one side - but this is iffy as I don't think I can get 5/8 (+) inches on each mounting tube by bringing it closer.
>>>> Sincerely
>>>> John
>>>> Ps. Send me a pic of that dismantled 308 shock configuration - does it look anything like my frame up front??
>>>>

>>>>
>>>> Hi John,
>>>> Leave the Brackets on the bumper as I said
>>>> in the center so you have adjustment and move the slotted tube ones
>>>> further in on the Chassis, fit or weld a flat plate so you have
>>>> something to weld to, anyway I will await your Chassis Photo OK.
>>>>
>>>> Regards Eddie Walsh
>>>>
>>>> John Asselta wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> That's exactly how I did it last nite, and each of the tubes need to be extended out at least 1/2 inch further than they can be adjusted to accommodate the frame. Tonite I will get a picture of the chassis and send it to you.
>>>>>

>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>> The simplest way to see if you can mount the
>>>>> bumper, is to assemble the brackets on the bumper in the center of
>>>>> the slots so you have room to adjust, then slide on the slotted
>>>>> tubes over your Brackets and fit bolt, and offer up to chassis you
>>>>> will soon see if they fit and if not just add another bracket onto
>>>>> your chassis to extend either in or out ??, I am sure it will be
>>>>> quite clear if you do it like that ???.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards Eddie Walsh
>>>>>
>>>>> John Asselta wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Eddie, This sure is weird, I fiddled with this all nite last nite and I could not get anything to line up. I am really not sure what to do.
>>>>>> John
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>>> I am measuring center to center of both
>>>>>> brackets on car and on bumper, and the approx is a max of 1/4
>>>>>> inch and as the brackets give a more than adaquate 1 inch slot to adjust ??.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards Eddie Walsh
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John Asselta wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My outside measurement on the frame is 28.5 inches. With the tubes pushed all the way out on the bumper, I measure 27 3/4 inches to the inside of the tubes where they will be welded to the frame. Your measurements are approximate. We are not talking much difference here, about 1/2 inch offset on each tube or elongate the holes and not use the other slot because it will have to be cut out. If these were made with longer slots, I could grind one slot closer to the tube, but the other bolt hole will not fit (the slot will not reach the other bolt hole). My car has never been in a wreck, all that has been done to it was federalization of us bumpers and brackets which I was planning to remove the us brackets.
>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>>>> I am sorry, but I have just gone round
>>>>>>> to my Bodyshop and measured a stripped down 308 GTS (Euro)
>>>>>>> chassis and I measured between the two Bumper Mounting Tubes
>>>>>>> with slots which are welded to the outer top Corner of the
>>>>>>> Chassis and the measure 28 inches approx the I measured the
>>>>>>> (Euro)Bumper and it is same 28 inches approx, and checked the
>>>>>>> original Ferrari Bumper Brackets and there is no offset on
>>>>>>> these, after all why would they, they could just repossition the
>>>>>>> Bonded in bumper Bracket, so the best thing to do is ask someone
>>>>>>> on Ferrari Chat that would know about these things to get the
>>>>>>> measurements and you will see I am right, also send me a Photo
>>>>>>> of the Front of your Chassis where the Brackets are welded on,
>>>>>>> the other thing to tink is your car could have been damaged
>>>>>>> before and repaired by someone who has never seen or worked on a ferrari before, I have seen quite a lot of that my self when I used to restore them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ` Regards Eddie Walsh
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John Asselta wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am very disappointed in your response, I have a euro chassis (F106as24081)and the euro bumper (it originally came from you) and there is no offset in these brackets to accommodate my chassis - I cannot use these brackets. I am an outstanding member of ferrarichat, ferraritalk and the ferrarilist as well as FCA and if I cannot get a refund I will post to the boards my disappointment in your company and I WILL dispute the charge on paypal. I am willing to pay a restocking charge if that what it takes, but these brackets are useless to me in their current configuration. I have seen these brackets previously on a euro car and I could have had them made, but I did not know the offset so I bought them from you thinking you had the offset dialed in. like I said, as soon as I opened up the box, I knew they were going to be a problem. If we cannot resolve this between up - I will dispute the charge on paypal - sorry it has to come to this - but I paid good money for these and I cannot use them.
>>>>>>>> Sincerely
>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>> Also, when I ordered these - there was no indication that I could not return them for any reason, not that I expected to return them, but this is the outcome.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>>>>> Sorry no returns as I only make these to
>>>>>>>> order, as I said to you these are for a Euro Spec Chassis,which
>>>>>>>> from yourdescription you do not have, Euro Chassis do not have
>>>>>>>> any Shock Mounting for Bumper as far asI know only USA Spec,
>>>>>>>> and I have been making these for over 20 years and never had
>>>>>>>> any Problems, other reason for no returns is some people just
>>>>>>>> want to see how the Brackets are made then get ther own Shop to copy, so anyway sorry.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards Eddie Walsh
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John Asselta wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hello Eddie, I received the bumper brackets in the mail and have been trying to fit them to my car. After trying and measuring for a few hours, there is no way these will work on a euro car with a euro bumper. As soon as I opened the box, I knew there was a problem. The one pair of factory brackets I saw - there is an offset where the bracket meets the bumper, your brackets are centered on the tube with no offset - therefore making it impossible to mount these. Has anyone used these previously? For your information, the distance measured on my car between the frame members that accept a bracket is 26.5 inches - your brackets when mounted on my bumper and pushed all the way towards the inside of the bumper and measured to the outside of the tubes is about 27 ¾ inches - therefore requiring the offset to make up the roughly 1.5 inch difference (1/2 to ¾ offset on each side). The same goes for the outside measurement if these were to be used that way, off by about 1.5 inches - hence the offset. When I say offset, I mean the shock tube needs to be welded very close to the bolt hole on one side and further on the other side. At any rate, I want to return these as they will not work for me without extensive modification to my frame and I did not want to do that and that is why I ordered these from you thinking I could use these out of the box. Please give me instructions on how to ship these back, and where to mail them to. I anticipate a refund to my paypal account. I hope you do the research and design a better bracket if you intend to market these before more people buy them.
>>>>>>>>> Sincerely
>>>>>>>>> John Asselta
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>>>>>>>>> No sorry they are only made to order OK.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards Eddie Walsh
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> John Asselta wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you have a picture of these mounting brackets you can send me???
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> John Asselta wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Euro spec chassis - F106AS24081 is the VIN
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi John,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First, is your Car Euro Spec
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chassis or USA Spec chassis OK.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in the front bumper brackets for my euro 1978 308 GTS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you have a picture of the brackets to send me? And
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how much are they. I have the fiberglass euro bumper
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the euro grill, but need the mounting brackets for the front bumper.

 

I agree that I could find a good fabricator and most likely get the job done with a lot of cutting and grinding and welding plates etc. Bottom line is that I did not realize how these were supposed to be mounted and seller never gave any clue as to how these are to be mounted prior to sale – even tho I requested this info. If I had known where they were to be mounted – I would have not bought them. I assumed they were to be mounted where the current bumper shocks are in which there is plenty of metal to work with. I will put these up for sale along with the euro bumper and cut my losses. I can buy a fiberglass bumper that fits the us mounts and be done with this all. Live and learn! Lessons learned: Pay with a credit card whenever possible! Paypal isn’t going to do squat for me on this one as item was shipped undamaged and as described.