Good rationale for a Ferrari if you're trying to convince or reassure your significant other:...
Good rationale for a Ferrari if you're trying to convince or reassure your significant other: http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2005-01-22-motorcycle-deaths_x.htm?csp=23&RM_Exclude=aol
The fact that these guys typically buy large, heavy, poorly handling, poorly braking "cruisers and dressers" doesn't help the problem.
I see a lot of those "cruisers and dressers", but the folks riding them around here tend to be the ones with the leather riding gear, helmets, and so forth. The 50 to 60 year old guys I see blasting by on CH Sportsters and expensive factory Harley choppers, helmetless and in jeans and sleeveless t-shirts, look like the bigger risks to me. Motorcycles, like cars, seem to be something you either have in your genetic makeup or don't. Some have both. My younger brother was a total motorcycle nut but never had the slightest interest in cars. I've never had the least urge to own a MC; I had fun riding my brother's around the neighborhood and that was it.
You got me. I tend to lump all Harley based machines together; cruisers, dressers, choppers, customs, all the same to me <ducks for cover>.
I talked to a sports doc a while back, and he told me that all body learning and memory takes place before you turn 19 or so. Thus, if you rode motorcycles when you were a kid (and lived), you'll do okay. On the other hand... Around here, these farts on Harleys are accidents waiting to happen. On Saturday, they put on their bad boy stuff and ride their "chopper" from ice house to ice house drinking beer. Let's see, take a 50-year old, out-of-shape, old fart. Add a 900 pound motorcycle with crappy brakes (yeah, watch out for that front brake, it'll bite ya!). Mix in a few beers and crowded two-lane back roads. The result ain't pretty.
They're very fast and noisy and tend to stimulate the same instincts and impulses that Ferraris do. A cult motorcycle with a very large and enthusiastic following. Sounds kind of familiar if you substitute "car" for "motorcycle".
I used to race bikes when I was a kid and rode them for years, my dad who just turned 70 got his first Harley fat boy after owning many hot Japanese bikes, he actually really likes it and rode it up from Arizona to N California in one day and commented it was very comfortable and was not fatigued at all riding it all day vs the rice bikes he could only ride for a few hours, but he did say the brakes were pathetic and unsafe in quick stopping instances vs the rice bikes, the same with the weight of the bike and handling characteristics, Harley needs to make the bikes perform better thats the main cause of accidents I see with them.
My brother had an accident on his motorcycle that put him in the hospital; the MD treating him called them "donorcycles".
Motorcycles aren't the problem. It's the people riding them. I did a test drive on a Harley last summer (big step for me, I'm a Ducati fan). I was on the interstate and there were two other test riders in front of me. As I go off the exit ramp, the lead guy pulls into the emergency lane like he's going to stop. Just before he stops, the bike falls over. Myself and the other guy in front of me pull over. It turns out the guy snapped his leg just above his ankle. He was a 57 year old man just out for a test ride. To make a long story short, he couldn't handle the bike as he was taking the off ramp which curved to the right. As a result, he drifted to the left and hit the left guard rail which caused him to snap his left leg. He wasn't going too fast by any means. He just couldn't handle the bike. Scott BTW, there's nothing wrong with the brakes on these bikes. They will still stop faster than a car.
Harley's are not fast, they have reasonable torque but fast is not in a harley world. Consider the fact that these "Poseurs" who can afford the price of entry rarely have the long term riding skills or respect for how cruel a mistake can be. It is the same when a Midlife Crisis inspired impulse takes almost any direction... I turn 40 this year, I have driven Motorcycles for 32 of those years, There have been times when it has been my only vehicle and have logged tens of thousands of miles per year on 2 wheels. I have had 2 accidents, (both minor). I also know that no matter how tempting it is to go lace on some skates and start playing hockey again that my body is not going to react the same way to the effort or to the reflexes hockey gave me when i was a kid. Dale is right on one thing though, the ice house crawl that is the scary a$$ed thing here. They have no clue how diminished your reflexes get and how much those are needed on 2 wheels.
Harleys have one small non drilled front brake disc and a skinny front tire, since 80% of your stopping is your front brake, its critical, the rice models have 2 huge drilled discs, on a motorcycle stopping performance needs to be far superior to the cars around you in emergency situations. I agree many of these riders are accidents waiting to happen, most don't understand the dynamics of motorcycles and use the rear brake to stop and are afraid to use the front for fear of hitting some oil or gravel and dumpimg it, but its the only way you can stop quickly, the same with fear of leaning the bike over far enough to turn vs sitting straight up and turning the handlebars.
Dunno, i think it's alot of factors. First, whether they are older riders who have come back to the fold, or new riders who are just picking up the sport for the first time in middle age, there is no substitute for saddle time. But, alot of the riders go out on the occasional weekend ride for a couple hours, that's it. Familiarity does not breed contempt; it's a good thing to know the bike, and its characteristics. Second, i started riding about 4 years ago, had never operated a bike before that. First thing i did was take the MSS course. Then, after buying a small maneuverable machine as a first bike (A Ducati, but a 750 Monster, not exactly a crotch rocket, but a pretty good handler), i practiced, slow turns, stops etc. I also set up the bike so it is comfortable, has good mirrors, footpegs are adjusted properly, etc. When i bought a Harley this past summer ( tricked-out V-Rod), the first thing i did was move the forward foot controls to mid-controls, and replace the factory brakes with Brembos. I don't know what your experience is with Harley brakes, but they didn't seem, at least to me, to have any really stopping power. THe Harley is deceptive: it's easier to ride in some ways than the Ducati, because its not as twitchy, and the low center of gravity and stretched out riding position make it seem more predictable, but, in fact, its a long, heavy, very slow to maneuver at low speeds bike. I'm glad i started on the Duc. Two other observations, one of which you guys have already touched on: I am armored up the ass when i go out: leather top and bottom, with armour, proper boots and gloves, helmet, etc. And, there is so much more traffic these days, and car drivers are just getting worse and worse, blowing stop signs, changing lanes first and looking later, etc. I tend to ride out in the country, and try to go when its early so i don't encounter as many cars. But, still, I am wary every time i saddle up...
I couldn't agree with you more. I wouldn't even drive my motorcycle the day after a night of drinking. I had to be 100% alert when I got on that thing or I just didn't feel safe. Scott
Add to that a back brace. I can't believe these idiots that are out there in t-shirts and tennis shoes. How stupid can you be!!!!! AND, now they have these stupid helmets that are chrome plated and look like a WWI German military helmet knock-off. I spent over $500 on my helmet. Scott
Motorcycles do not have shorter stopping distances than cars, that is a common misconception. But I do agree with you, the riders are the weak link here. Just for reference: http://www.fast-autos.net/ferrari/ferraristradale.html 60-0: 107 ft This represents probably the extreme stopping distance currently avaiilable, but most sports cars would be 120-135 ft. Even a sedan would be 150 ft. A Suzuki Bandit 600 with an expert was 146 ft. http://www.sportrider.com/ride/146_9510_rss/ Granted the Suzuki tested does not reperesent the shortest distance possible with a motorcycle, but it is also doubtful that the stopping distance on a lightweight, tall, sportbike would be under 120 ft. Too many people think of motorcycles as toys and do not take the danger seriously. Regardless of the horsepower available to them, an inexperienced rider is always in great danger of crashing and ending up a statistic. Some new riders assume that they can be inattentive, sleepy, drink, etc just like they do in a car. Some people are just not made out to be motorcyclists because of attitude or physical abilities, unfortunately the criteria for buying a H-D is simply how much money you have, not your capabilities. Even riders with more experience have a more difficult time as they get older. Riding a motorcycle requires much quicker reaction times, balance, and reflexes than does a car. Those motor skills degrade as we get older.
2 poignant excerpts from the cited article: 1. I never, ever, ever, ever drink when I'm riding - not even a sip of alcohol. Ever. 2. A 30 year hiatus requires re-honing of the skills; I came back after a 2 year break and it took me a good 6 months to re-etch my groove (I've been on and off motorcycles since I was 12.) The problem seems to be compound in nature; 1. The Harley crowd rarely uses/wears proper gear (that's a large part of the problem) 2. Most of them don't bother to take any training courses/riding schools prior to purchase 3. They don't have an innate respect for the machine they're on and the nature of the risk they're taking. I remember when Bill elicited an interest in riding; he read book after book, took course, got the proper equipment and most importantly LISTENED to others and therefore did not repeat their foibles - he is, however, a rare exception. (BTW Bill I think I've finally, really got the counter steering concept down.)
A year ago, I sold all my bikes. I had three dual sport enduo's for the back country. After nearly being bumper fodder for logging trucks and other trucks about five times (On fire roads in the Sierra's) I called that quits. I also had an '84 and a new Goldwing. They were extremely fun to ride. The big Honda was so quiet that the deer would not hear you coming. I had two close calls with these stupid animals. If it was not the deer, it was drunk cowboys or high meth-heads coming at me in my lane. The thought of eating the rest of my life's dinners through a straw did not go over well in regard to my mindset to keep the bikes. Having to have something for sport, I bought three 100MPH 125cc karts! Go figure!
Key thing here is this is an expert rider. The audience we are talking about are not mostly. Comparing this to a car where all you have to do is slam the brake with ABS, its no contest.
The problem with these older guys is if they can get away without wearing a helmet most will. To me that's crazy. I really don't feel sorry for those people. So far I haven't convinced myself to get rid of mine just because something could happen. Be careful out there guys.
I'm not a motorcycle guy, and I'm certainly not criticizing anyone here who is. From all these posts it seems like the Ferrari crowd is as careful with their bikes as they are with their cars. The point about motorcycles is that you're on a two wheeled rocket with no protection other than helmet and clothing(hopefully), and luck is going to run out eventually, no matter how ultra-cautious you are. A 12 cylinder Ferrari has to be the world's best compromise on the thrills and dangers of airplanes and motorcycles.
I think alot of these deaths have to do with a helmet not being part of the "lifestyle". I have a friend that has wrecked every bike he has ever owned. He always wore a helmet when riding a sport bike. He managed to ecsape essentially unscathed each time. (broken ankle on the freeway) Now he has a Soft Tail Duece and the helmet is gone unless he is riding a good bit of distance. It just doesn't make any sense to me. I have been down twice, both times with full gear, and I was able to walk away from both. What did I do, I took an Advanced Riding School and bought full leathers. I want to be as safe as possible without sitting in a dark room for the rest of my life.
In Missouri we have a helmet law, while Illinois does not. I have seen guys stopping at the end of the bridge after crossing into Illinois to take their helmet off and stow it away. Amazing. They already have it with them and on. Natural selection at work I guess. If you ride in a state w/o a helmet law, virtually every Harley bad boy goes without a helmet. Even the little skull caps they wear here cannot possibly protect as well as a full face.
