"AVH" failure warning light and funny braking

I am not sure if this is remotely relevant to your issue but everything seems to boil down to battery life and the computer. I drove to work this week and did not realize that the radiator fan was running even with the key out. An employee comes in 2 hours later and says "hey your radiator fan is running." SH$T called the dealership and promptly drove the car over. Well on the highway I get "Power steering failure" "Transmission failure" and "AVH failure" It is just such a great feeling of limping on the road and watching everyone honk at you.

Root cause - relay switch. All the other shutdown failures occurred because the battery was almost completely drained.

Let's hope it is something as simple as that for you MalibuGuy

 

I think when you get a barrage of sensor warnings, especially from different components, that a common factor could well be electrical. As cars become more and more electronically complicated, with sensors to detect various component failures, a weak link like the battery will definitely throw up multiple spurious faults.

BTW, are you guys hooking up the battery tender every time you put the car away at home? I find the battery takes a bit of time to charge back up even after a long drive in the country. Perhaps the HELE system in my car is having a significant effect, but the charging system in my car does not seem to keep up with the draw.

 

A more heavy duty battery is a very good idea but even a new battery can still be defective and driving the car everyday does not mean the battery is being adequately recharged. If it's stop-go traffic, it actually makes it worse.

So I ask again, are you hooking up the battery tender every time you put the car away?

 

A friend with a 458 had a similar issue (the cars have basically the same internal IT structure, if I can call it that).

As usual, the initial suspect was low battery/voltage, which can cause these kinds of issues...and the usual fix is to clear the codes with a DEIS, and charge (or replace) the battery.

However, turns out that he actually had a relay and sensor failure; popped up clear as a bell on the DEIS, actually a straightforward fix, but it caused an electrical fault (hence the set of multiple, theoretically unrelated alarms/failures).

In your case I'd suspect that you're feeling it in the braking (incl ABS) as that system feeds off so many other inputs - or, could be sourced to that (eg. booster not holding pressure).

So - pure speculation on my part, a bit of my friends' story, we usually (and it's often the case) assume that it's a battery/charging issue, but it's not. FWIW I had a similar issue with a BMW.

 

That is my biggest challenge, I live in a high rise condo so nothing less than a 300 foot power cable will allow me to plug-in. Leaving for a month now and will be amazed if any of my cars start when I am back.

Hey 4th_gear in your area for a while, perhaps we can break bread. I will PM you.

 

Amazing to spend this amount of money and find it acceptable to have to plug up your car to a battery charger to keep warnings, failures from appearing. Almost any nicely optioned car these days have nav, parking sensors, cameras, terrain or traction settings, etc. and you don't have to plug them in to run or maintain. Not buying"these cars have advanced electronics." Almost all cars do these days....

 

Well Eric, don't buy them then. Save your money and buy a Prius.

Actually, my BMWs all had the same problem and that's where I learned how to properly take care of these cars. They had all the electronic goodies at least a decade before the "any nicely optioned car these days" finally got them. Many of those goodies weren't invented by the "any nicely optioned car these days". It's called the trickle-down effect.

Anyway, in case you haven't clued in yet - most Ferraris are not driven daily and highway motoring for a Ferrari is a bit of a waste.

 

Good to know it was a single point failure. A brake switch problem may also explains the odd behaviour of your brakes although I thought brake switches only turn on the brake lights. So I'm not sure how a brake switch failure would cause the CST and Manettino "failures" as well as cause an odd behaviour with the brakes. I also have no idea what AVH means.

Maybe your dealer should explain further - my wild guess is that the brake switch may have short-circuited and caused a surge that affected nearby sensor circuits (CST?) fed by the same electrical feed. I also wonder how the switch affects brake feel.

Here's what I could dig up for a brake switch on the California. It's the only brake system switch listed by Ricambi for the Cali.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Wow MalibuGuy, you ARE pissed! I know you've had a string of service issues lately so I don't blame you. Of course, you know Ferrari doesn't actually make these parts but does build the engines, suspensions, car bodies and design how they are put together, along with the software.

You need to find out why the part(s) failed and how the sensors were spuriously triggered. I wished service techs would explain things properly - same problem with many doctors. It's important for an intelligent person to understand the causes of problems because if you can't get a handle on a complex personal possession - they end up owning you.

BMW, Porsche and Mercedes were the first makers to employ complex BOSCH systems in cars. IMO, they made their cars several notches better than the rest and dragged the entire car industry to vastly improve literally all the cars we see on the roads today. Everyone copied the Germans.

I really loved my BMWs, which I held onto for at least 15 years each, until some idiot banged into them. I didn't buy another BMW because the new mass-market ones aren't that interesting to me …because they are mass-market. You don't seem to be impressed with a loaner Prius either so I don't think you plan to own one.

BTW, have you considered taking your business to the other Ferrari dealers in the LA area?

 

What do you mean DD a Ferrari is a waste? If I buy something I intend to use it unless it is perhaps a collectible. Cars, guitars or whatever!

John

 

I understand the "trickle down effect" but what I don't understand is the effect you sound accustomed to ....the "trickle charge up my ferrari after it sits a short amount of time effect". I'm blessed with some great cars and some do sit for some time but amazingly when I hit the key or button they start....with no failures. Not bashing as i do love ferraris(I'm on this site obviously) but every time I see a post about batteries, trickle charging it just irks me. No thanks on the prius🚗

 

I was told by the Dealer he'd mechanic that the new Fcars including the california only have a tolerance of 3/10 of a volt that is at 11.7 volts the systems will act up and start throwing faults. So I have found that just charging the car overnite once a week will solve most problems interesting i do not have the same problem on my 2001 550 which has a much less advanced systems (sic)..
If you live in a condo with no electrical outlet available and the assoc will not add one at your parking space. .. then there must be a way to handle it.??

 

Well, what I actually meant was "take the side roads instead of the highway", if you can. I find cruising on the highway is only entertaining for the first few seconds when I accelerate from the ramp and another few seconds when I decelerate to exit the highway.

I know it's not always possible but if you can find a decent secondary highway route to your daily commute destination that would likely make for a more entertaining drive. Failing that some folks also leave way early for work if they can have a more open highway to stretch their cars' legs on.

Of course, for many people a DD doesn't actually involve commuting at all. So I'm not actually against DD usage, I just hate driving in heavy traffic. Years ago I simply moved downtown so I could walk to work and drive for fun.

 

Well, kudos to you if you have never had to contend with car problems after sitting your cars for weeks. But remember that batteries are consumables so they will crap out on you regardless.

You might also consider why battery tenders and chargers are such popular items (some even with carmaker's branding) and why many people have used them on their cars …for decades. While I think it makes for entertaining discussions and "encouragement", griping about it doesn't necessarily prove a carmaker is negligent or messing up on purpose, unless we design cars for a living.

 

That sounds awful. Wasn't aware of that problem and will try to learn more about it. Would you have any links to earlier discussions?

I think there may be another view of this matter. From what I know, excessive heat does shorten the life of batteries but heat also boosts battery capacity (amp-hrs). I suspect Ferrari put the battery in the middle of the engine to improve battery reliability at the cost of potentially reducing battery life.

Most battery issues tend to be due to weak charge or cold temperature starting so it would seem to make sense if they traded battery life for better battery capacity. I think it's not really a weight distribution issue because the Cali's rear bias is only 53% and I suspect 54% might even be better. I think the battery was purposely placed there to keep it warm.

This actually brings up another lesson I learned with my BMWs - radiators. Both BMW and Mercedes (and other lesser makes) equipped (and probably still equipe) their cars with "plastic radiators" - essentially units with plastic housings and aluminium cores. The result was periodic catastrophic ruptures of either the plastic housing and/or fittings, immediate loss of coolant and possible heat damage to the engines.

Why did BMW do this? My guess was "weight savings" more than "cost savings". My old E39 540i Sport had a huge front end weight bias which the industry deemed undesirable (and which I deemed fun to play with). Plastic radiators saves weight. Anyway, that's my guess.

So what's the connection to the Cali's battery placement?

The connection is heat, specifically heat buildup that results when the car is no longer in motion (benefiting from air flow/exchange) and heat buildup was what degraded and ruptured the plastic radiator components. In an attempt to prevent the plastic radiator disasters in my BMW I would religiously pop the hood of my BMW whenever I put it away. Since cooking the battery while the car is already protected from cold in your garage is completely pointless, I would suggest popping the hood if you store it in a private garage. I already do this with my Cali because I thought it pointless to cook the engine. A moving car gets a great deal of cooling from air flow and I don't perceive any cooling once the ignition is turned off. The radiator fan stops running.

I suppose I'll have to wait and see if it helps protect the battery but most batteries do need replacement after 3-4 years so it's like your tires, and should probably be renewed even if it looks OK.

Yes, the thing about keeping the mileage down is ridiculous and really more advantageous to the factory as it reduces the risks of warranty repairs.

As for the parts, there's probably some sort of "luxury tax" added on top of an already healthy profit margin. I'm also wondering if the reason why poorly-performing parts may still be used as replacements is because the factory bought a huge quantity in the beginning, keep the surplus ones on inventory as replacements. So they would be reluctant to switch to a better replacement until they use up their stock of the crappy ones.

 

Ahhhh! This makes sense! And I totally agree on the freeway part. No F car in my stable yet, but my 911 Cab is a daily driver such as my drive is... For trips, however, I stay on side roads as much as possible.

John

John

 

Interesting comment on brake pedal. I owned a a Cali for a couple of mnths and from time to time felt the same feeling in the brake pedal. There were certainly times I felt the brake pedal had more play in it then other times.

 

I know this thread is 10 years old at this point but I'm going to try anyways to see if there is the odd chance that anyone else has experienced this.

I have the same persistent problem with AVH / Mannetino failure errors and the play in the brakes BUT I only get it when I go over bumps, railroad tracks, or a dip in the road.

Then the car goes into Wet mode and stays there for as long as you drive until you shut it off and let it rest about 15-20 mins and then it starts up and works normally until you go over another bump.

Car is 2013 458 Spider

 

Might be one of the ground wires (there are several around the car) that doesn't make a perfect contact.
The 458 seems to be the most sensitive car in the world when it comes to voltage variations

I am experiencing something similar (not from bumps) for the last year. It is driving me nuts.