Audi in F1?

PCA DE events book up fast.

 

Can someone explain the relationship issue between Bernie and VAG. Is there a specific reason why Piech and Bernie don't get along?

Thanks.

 

It's a numbers game. PCA membership over 75,000. FCA membership less than 5,000.

 

Bugatti is the only current VW brand with any F-1 history. so not dumb... its the Halo effect. Porsche's history is much more tied to Sports car racing than F-1. they have only won 1 race under their own name... and while the Tag Porsche McLarens were superb and WDC winning - the Porsche name was only associated as the engine maker under contract - the actual engine was the Tag Turbo... remember Porsche was hired to make the engine.... vs. the latter Arrows Porsche tie in.

Audi has no F-1 history- Auto Union - yes, same as Bugatti... however Auto Union has the unfortunate Nazi tie in with the Swastikas on its side in the late 30's... there for Bugatti is really the most traditional brand.

you could make an argument for Lamborghini as well. but again it was not a great effort, and never won anything.

Auto Union and Bugatti are the only F-1 Championship winning brands that VW owns.

 

There are far more Porsche cars out there than Ferrari's... and you can get into a Porsche for under $20K vs. a Ferrari ( that you would want to take on a track )

I think the biggest reason you dont see as many street Ferrari's being tracked is that the current cars are so much faster and are WAY above the average owners ability. current Porsche's are the same ... its very scary & Dangerous.

Its also no as fun to be flogging a 328 around a track and being passed by a modern mini... so the performance disparity is huge.

 

It really comes down to which brand has the most upside potential from a successful F1 racing program. That is Lamborghini.

 

Hasn't stopped MB.

 

... Audi, directly competing against Porsche, would be indicative of the Redskins suiting up, pads and cleats, scheduled 9 innings at Dodger stadium.

Back in the 1980s, General Motors execs turned the notion of road relevance on its ear, hopelessly screwing-up SCCA and IMSA beyond recognition fielding their tube-frame Oldsmobile Auroras, directly against Ferrari's F-40. When, in reality, an F40 would otherwise lap an off-the-shelf Oldsmobile several times throughout the course of road race, the weirdness of turning out to the local track, seeing with your own two eyes GM's gross, wanton perversion of market pecking orders, the absurdity of an Oldsmobile sedan lapping Ferrari's F40, tore at the fabric of endurance competition to such extent, collateral damage of the dichotomy GM created inevitably ripped IMSA asunder.

It's never been the same, since.

Equally bad for business, WEC is so hopelessly screwed up, it has Audi and Porsche going head-to-head, against Toyota. Things like this are really bad for the automotive industry. WEC was Porsche turf... Once a bona fide venue, until Audi convoluted WEC, racing turbo-diesels on SUV wheels.

Showing turbo-diesels, lapping gasoline engined vehicles, Audi so grossly distorted endurance racing, it warped the WEC into an assault upon our intelligence, purporting turbo-diesels on oversized-gangbanger wheels, to be faster than gasoline engined vehicles?

That is an abomination...

Satan incarnate of contemporary motor sport, Audi should never have been in WEC, in the first place. As of this writing, F1 is screwed-up enough, already. Let's hope and pray the Volkswagen-Audi people never come sniffing around F1 -- asj.

 

If you asked a general car fan they would definitely like to see the Lambo or Porsche brand in F1. I don't think they know/bother about Bugatti..

 

And, there are a lot more PCA DE events than FCA DE events too.

 

Much like catherham or Marussia or Sauber, Force India etc.... the fans like them or liked them.

 

Absolutely no chance of VAG in F1 until Bernie is gone from the sport, based on first-hand information from a senior VAG executive. There is no 'decision-in-waiting' on which brand might do F1 either.

Apropos of asjoseph's comments, a closer look at the variations and balance of the hybrid powertrain elements fielded by Audi, Porsche, and Toyota (plus Nissan next season) should make it clear that there is genuine and useful competition between technical solutions going on in the WEC. VAG see Audi and Porsche racing against each other in terms of teammates pushing each other and making each other faster, and accelerating the technical progress of the group. Both marques' racing programs are institutionally intertwined with road car development. I think it's all great for the WEC and the sport as a whole...

 

Latest on this issue - I would say this is not going to happen, at least not with Porsche.

Porsche boss dismisses F1 move - Pitpass.com

 

There were rumours of late that if VW had to enter F1, they would probably do it with Lamborgini at Toro Rosso and with Domenicali's involvement.

Would make a lot of sense if you think about it.

 

Bugatti can't even shift its current production of Veyron and has to issue "special editions" to get rid of the unsold cars they have left. What effect the Bugatti brand in F1 could have on the commercial side, I cannot imagine, but it would be close to nil, I think.

Sure, Auto Union has swastikas on their sides, but Mercedes was more associated with the Nazis, and very much the Third Reich favourite too. The Auto Union management kept its distance with the regime. I don't think it has done any lasting damage to their image.

Apart from the 4 rings on the AUDI logo, there is absolutely no link with Auto Union. AUDI was NSU, a firm that VW bought in the 70s and developed for its luxury range.

 

It all makes sense and continues to be denied. Lambo sells alot cars without F1. I would not waste the money on an entry and certainly not with Toro Rosso.

 

Hanz comments that one of the reasons they are involved in WEC and not F1 is that there are more and more competitors. This season just gone there were exactly two and if Nissan make it to the grid in 2015, three.

If they entered F1 they would immediately have Merc, Ferrari, Red Bull, Williams, Mclaren and 5-6 others of lesser standing.

The road relevancy is vital to push because ultimately when they go to their board and ask for the F1 level budgets teams need to start and compete in LMP1 today, they need to offset the reality of the low race attendances and having less television audience in an entire season than F1 draws on a single weekend.

If we take COTA as an example, F1 drew 107,778 on race day and 237,406 over the three day event. WEC drew 50,234 over the entire two day event.

 

Audi's switch to diesel power in 2006 was at the behest of the ACO which was seeking
to showcase alternative fuels at Le Mans. The ACO threw their rules open to diesel and other
platforms but only diesel emerged as a suitable alternative to petrol power.

The result was that only Audi and Peugeot came to the deal with diesel power but recollecting
the debut of Audi's R10 TDI at Sebring also brought about the most requests from media
sources for credentials in Sebring's history, so the world's motoring press was taking note.

Seeing these cars in person also lends some perspective as they launch with so much torque
off the turns, it is astounding. They are simply spectacular machines.

So, to chastise Audi for pushing the boundaries of automotive technology goes against everything
racing should be, a proving ground for future average road-going cars.

Audi not only did this in P-1 with TDI power, but bringing 4WD to WRC and TransAM causing
both to eventually completely rewrite their rule books.

Were Audi (VAG) to enter F-1, perhaps they wouldn't come with 4WD or TDI, but they would
certainly up the game at the very least from a competition stand point as we've also seen
from their participation in P-1, nothing goes unnoticed.

Since when was a bit of shake-up not good for racing? People beg for change and the
moment change comes, then these same people ***** and moan when it's finally
implemented.

If it is status quo racing that is desired, please allow me to introduce a brand called
NASCAR where what passes from "innovation" comes at glacial speed.

BHW

 

The VAG has no reason to enter F1. I see the Porsche article I linked as blunt and concise. It alludes to nothing other than what it states. They see no use for F1 as it relates to their business evidently. As far as Porsche goes. Along that train of thought it would suffice for Audi as well in my opinion.

I would like to see a new team in F1. A VAG team would be great. The evidence thus far is saying to me they are not ready to do this.

 

+1

VAG acquired Bugatti and Bentley in 1998.

Bentley cars won the 24 Hours of Le Mans in 1924, 1927, 1928, 1929, 1930 and 2003.

Cannot imagine why VAG would want to risk losing to Merc every week or two in F1 with any of their brands...unless they already have a better mousetrap ready to go.

 

In reality F1 does not offer much room for technical advancement in road cars. To believe that it did, you would need to think that the smart guys at the FIA have a crystal ball that tells them that tiny V-6 turbo engines with various harvesting, storage and reuse systems are the only approach to high efficiency cars of the future. If you are VAG, including Audi, Porsche and their other brands, and you are committed to diesel because of the superior physics of its energy profile, why would you waste your time when there is LMP1h.

F1 is rooted in the notion that it representes pure racing. It is supposed to be the fastest cars racing, driven by the best drivers, on demanding circuits. Nobody tunes into the Austrailian GP and says, "Wow, look at the way those cars are harvesting waste heat through that clever MGU-H. I hope I can do that some day." Time to let F1 go back to racing and allow the prototype classes in WEC be the rolling test beds implied by their name...prototypes.

 

+1

 

Has Tom gotten too old to drive a race car for all those hours?

 

Diesel F1 cars, comming to at GP near you!

Boy, I sure hope NOT!

Remember not too long ago Toyota spent a fortune in F1 and didn't achieve much.


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