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Attention all working class bums... how affordable is your 308/Mondial???

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by s2mikey, Nov 5, 2003.

  1. Santini

    Santini Formula Junior

    Oct 1, 2003
    480
    North Carolina
    Absolutely. You haven't lived until you've scraped your knuckles nearly to the bone in sub-freezing temperatures.
     
  2. 4re gt4

    4re gt4 Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2002
    2,279
    Roseburg, OR
    Full Name:
    Hans E. Hansen
    Santini: Yeah!

    I just thought of another example. Suppose the water pump goes t!ts up in your new 308. This is a common V8 failure. The alternatives are:

    1. Take it to a professional. Even tho the pump is in plain sight, it can be a bugger to get off. Early cars will require the removal of one of the cam covers - later cars....???? In any event, you'll spend at least $400 in labor. Maybe a lot more. Now, most shops don't have the time to web-surf for the best deal on a new pump, so you'll pay for one from one of the "normal" vendors, maybe even FNA. List for a new pump is somewhere around $800+++. So you will be out $1200-1500 to replace your pump.

    2. DIY. It'll take you two or three times as long as a pro to R & R the pump. However, I'm assuming you're not charging yourself for your labor. If you shop the parts, you can find a pump for $350 or so. If you rebuild your existing pump, and get creative with sourcing parts, you can rebuild for maybe $100. Total outlay: $100-400.

    "Poor man" Ferrari ownership is possible. But you might have to be creative.
     
  3. atheyg

    atheyg Guest

    I added up the reciepts on my 86 328 from the POs and they total over $32,000 in repairs, such things as the oil cooler exploding, rear diff bearings going bad and an average of $5000 on 2 major services along with little things hich add up fast.I am glad they cared about the car as much as I do and could afford it as it runs and drives like new.


    I have had my 328 a year and put roughly 3000 miles on it, mechanically its been a very reliable car, however I have spent around $6000 to make it perfect, its easy to do with F car parts prices and services.

    If you can afford the extras for repairs, paint touch ups etc
    then go for it, if not it would take much of the fun out of owning
    a Ferrari
     
  4. JaguarXJ6

    JaguarXJ6 F1 Veteran

    Feb 12, 2003
    5,427
    Black Hawk, CO
    Full Name:
    Sunny
    Just as important as finding the right car is having the right contacts and willingness to learn and fill in for the small items. If you wrench, even better!

    Create some savings, build up these contacts, and when the right car or the right model speaks to you, you have a strong foundation to make a decision on. Owning a Ferrari is never without risk, if reading posts on F-chat for the last 6+ months is any indication in my opinion!

    As a friend once said to me a month or two ago, you want to own the car and say, darn it, something broke, but it will be fixed. Not, "Oh, lordy lordy..." when something bad happens. Until you are firmly of the first group factoring in purchase + $5k and $1-5k for the rest of the year and another $3-5k each year after that, wait. Its not worth the hardship.

    Family first. It will feel a lot better being able to own, drive, and repair a Ferrari rather than owning a car your afraid to use and cut corners to own.

    Sunny
     
  5. AMA328

    AMA328 F1 Rookie

    Nov 12, 2002
    2,518
    ABQ-67me68-OKC :)
    appears to me to be a tradeoff on the affordability issue:

    1) have enuf $$ that it doesn't matter...

    2) do it yourself.

    Pick how far you wanna lean towards either pole and see if it works for you. Services every few yrs for a $x,000, vs. tear it apart, do it yourself and learn sumpin' along the way.

    After the dust settles, these are just cars, and cars can be fixed/maintained by individuals.
     
  6. driver

    driver Karting

    Sep 19, 2002
    120
    I agree that a Ferrari is worth some financial sacrifice. The key word is "some". It would be great if Ferrari ownership involved no sacrifice whatsoever, but that is not always the case. I would not use the rent money, so to speak. A previous post mentioned unexpected repairs...my master cylinder suddenly bit the dust, and upon careful inspection of the brakes, we noticed a leaking caliper. Well, once the system is apart for repair, you may as well replace the dried up bushings...and gee, the rotors are at the end of their useful life. So, $7K later my master cylinder works. On a $65K annual gross, this will be a very unpleasant experience. You are looking at a 20+ year old machine. Don't go into this with magical thinking.
     
  7. Santini

    Santini Formula Junior

    Oct 1, 2003
    480
    North Carolina
    *cough* *choke* *gasp!* $7000 for a master cylinder??? :eek:
     
  8. Dale

    Dale F1 Veteran

    Oct 7, 2003
    5,211
    uk
    Full Name:
    Dale Juan
    Buying a ferrari is a problem for me that is,and its a BIG THUMB'S UP FROM ME IF YOU OWN ONE and most of you chaps do NICE,servicing it is a piece of cake-yes piece of cake,ive driven a couple of fc's and liked the engine where it should be-behind me,give me a few more years and i will have one wont be very mint but i will make it as mint as poss-busmans holiday one thinks
    Dale.
     
  9. driver

    driver Karting

    Sep 19, 2002
    120
    Well, it wasn't just an extremely expensive master cylinder! One thing led to another, and since so much of the suspension was apart, it made sense to replace some other 28 year old parts. I drive my car about 7 thousand miles a year, and even if you drive 7 miles a year...there is no way to prevent rubber from deteriorating. I think that many people ignore that kind of maintenance because it is not readily visible. The point was that even with a sound car, there can be many unexpected issues that can lead to financial problems. Understand that, prepare for those events, and go ahead and buy a Ferrari.
     
  10. phild328

    phild328 Rookie

    Aug 2, 2004
    34
    Lebanon, PA
    I'm a working class stiff also, about same income, house, kid, etc. But you absolutely have to do the work YOURSELF. You have to know how to work on cars BEFORE getting your Ferrari. Why, because you are not going to be comfortable or happy breaking a $500 part on a Ferrari. So if you don't do car work, get a starter car. And I recommend my starter - a Bertone X1/9. It is after all a "baby ferrari". And "fix it again tony" should give you experience. Plus the parts are extremely cheap. Plus some of the parts are the same as the 308/328 - so you save money (like the side marker lights and door lock knobs). And I assume we are talking 308/328 since they are the most affordable.
    NEXT, buy the right car. Not the first car. It should take you a year to find the right car at the best price. COMPLETE records. Have the other guy pay. Don't get a low mileage car. Get a high mileage car that has had $20K of work done. Because all the gremlins will have been driven out.
    My experience - I had a 308QV, bought for $30.5K and sold for $34K. So I sold for as much as I had in it (including the sales tax). Bought a 328 and still have it - so not sure on the resale. But I've put next to no money in it. The most money I spent was on tires since I paniced into a turn and locked them up and put a flat spot on them.
    But both cars had lots of work done before. The 308 had one of the heads redone and a bunch of other stuff. The 328 had clutch, ignition, belts and a bunch of stuff done. Each had $10k to $15k of work in the past few years. And so you can probably get away with a few years of next to no costs.
    So anyway, just go get it - you won't loose money - just be sure to insure it, since it is like driving your house around.
     
  11. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 6, 2002
    71,602
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    Less see, monthly 308 GTB note at $86/week, self financed againnst 401K balance of $$$$$.....but $400/month vehicle allowance from employer........I only go upside down on the five week months...

    Every five years I get another 308GTB.....

    As stated above it's about managing your cash flow...now pardon me, the rents due!!! Gotta go......

    Speedy"Who you callin' a bum?"308
     
  12. LopeAlong

    LopeAlong Formula Junior

    Mar 29, 2004
    461
    West of St. Louis
    Full Name:
    Jim
    First and foremost find a car that has been well sorted and as phild328 said - let the PO pay for the issues. You will have to pay a little extra for these "type" examples, but it will definately pay off very quickly. Also, I don't believe you need a beater to learn maintenance. Just take your time and ask a lot of questions here or on other boards. THere are a lot of knowledgable, nice folks who will laugh, cry, and celebrate with you on your problems and success'. I am paying off a loan for my 308 as money is cheap now. I know people who have spent more on their bass boats. Don't let the "F" label scare you away - it's just another asset. I have a terrific wife who understands my obsession. She supported an ownership dream I have had since I saw the 308 in a magazine in 1975. Trust me, no one will be able to wipe the S$$$ eating grin off your face when you go out for a drive! I also realize that my pride and joy may have to go bye-bye when college rolls around for my two girls. Just keep a good perspective with your life/family plans.
     
  13. Philjay50

    Philjay50 Formula Junior

    Jan 16, 2003
    582
    Chester, England
    Full Name:
    Philip
    I bought my Mondial almost blind, I was fed up with the massive amount of depreciation on new cars and decided that as my kids were off my hands, almost, I would go back to running "classic" or more interesting cars.
    I thought a 944 would be a good daily runner but in a moment of absolute weekness bought the 84 Mondial. The car has not done a massive mileage and had been standing around for some time. Also as somebody else mentioned because of the cost of work on these cars some jobs had been botched up.
    Three or so years on I still have the car, not as a main runner but a fun car, it's had a few problems and I have been able to sort them out myself, the only job I paid the garage to do was Cam belts, and that was because I was in a hurry. As for cost, well I bought it cheap and today I recon I would still get more than I paid for it, the cost of replacement items has not been outrageous although not cheap, hunt them out if you have to, the trick is being able to do the jobs yourself yourself !!
    My running costs are nowere near a $1 mile, based on annual running costs.
    I love every minute of the car and as someone else has said, I still get a buzz when I see it in the garage.
    By the way, you said wife and kids, that I thinks leaves a choose of two, a mondial or GT4. there is an interesting discussion on that topic else where on this site, it's good reading.
     
  14. gil308

    gil308 Formula 3

    Jun 22, 2004
    1,957
    Charleston, SC
    Full Name:
    Gil
    I'm in a similar financial situation as you...if you do your own work, you are better off...unfortunately, I have not learned how to work on my 308QV...so I used to take it to the dealer for the 1st 3 years..$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Now in FL, I take it to a private shop..$$$$$$$$$$, but better than a dealer. It does get tough...you can say to yourself "it's not my daily driver so repairs can wait"...no they can't 1) because you want to drive it 2) the longer it sits, the more can go wrong.

    It's a labor of love , although I don't do the labor. I would never discourage Ferrari ownership as I will never sell mine...in fact I want more. But it can get expensive to own...Since May 1999 when I bought mine (gulp) $15,875 to do mandatory repairs to keep it running...about $4000 was due to the dealer misdiagnosing the problem...oh well. And given I drive my 308 2000-3000 miles a year, all the $1-$2 per mile calculations seem correct.

    Given that, if there is a F-Chat member living in the West Palm area who can teach me how to work on cars, I would love to learn...I am sure I would enjoy ownership more if I could work on mine...not just due to cost, but the pleasure of personally maintaining my baby.

    Good luck!!
     
  15. yasir

    yasir Formula Junior

    Nov 5, 2003
    339
    Lets see you make $65,000/yr and probably your take home pay is right around $14,00/biweekly,give and take.Now lets see you buy a Ferrari,an entry level,for $27,000 and depending on how long you finance it for,your payment could be around $400/month.So make a monthly budget for your self and see how much is your savings/month,not forgetting to have some $$$$ saved in bank for the rainy days.
    A practical guy will most likely never buy a Ferrari so sit down make your self a priority list and then if you want one and can do it easily then by all means go for it.Do not convince your self into buying an Fcar thinking that F-Chat can help you do all the maintanence yourself 'coz it ain't gonna happen.You would still need to buy parts ( $$$),tools ( $$$),a garage,manuals ($$$) and on top of that skill to do it .
    Hope that helps.
    Yasir
     
  16. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,683
    North shore, MA
    Full Name:
    THE Birdman
    If you can do your own work, a 308 is no more expensive to own than most classic cars of this age. The parts to replace the clutch for example are $400. Less than my Honda civic or Toyota Celica. The labor to have someone else do it is rediculous. If you can do it, it's perfectly affordable. Once sorted, the 308 is very simple to maintain, and reliable. It just ain't rocket science.

    Birdman
     
  17. Coujer

    Coujer Karting

    Jul 19, 2004
    136
    Carmel, CA
    Full Name:
    Laurent C. Richard
    I'm in the same boat. I love all ferrari's, so no matter which one I get I will still love it. But my problem is my height being 6'4 and 250 lbs, but my major issue is maintenance. Right now we just bought a new house, so definantly can't afford one. But hopefully in the near future after I start a business and stop working for someone else I'm hoping to be able to afford one. Like someone else said in this forum: "if you have to ask, you can't afford it!"
    Thats a great way of looking at it. I've got 2 1/2 years left on my lease for my Mazda. I plan on keeping it and keep using it as a daily driver but I might buy a Ferrari (308, Mondial T, 328, TR wishing) or Acura NSX depending on my financial situation. If I get a Ferrari I got to make sure I can afford it otherwise it will sit in the garage. Anyways just my thoughts and situation.
     
  18. Choptop

    Choptop F1 Rookie

    Aug 15, 2004
    4,455
    Carmichael, CA
    Full Name:
    Alan Galbraith
    This is fairly encouraging to hear. Not a whole lot I cant do with a wrench (long time hot rodder), so the DIY maint shouldnt be tooo much of an issue. Finding the right car and cheap parts will be the challenge...


    hmmm who has a Mondial cab. with a recent 30K service for sale? oh yes... cheap? :D.
     

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