Atlantic City Auction '82 400i 5speed Sold!

gotcha, thanks.

i wish i could offer some consolation in the same way Jay has...but, unfortunately, i think you may have missed out on a great car, albeit for the right reasons.
you will certianly find another car...but it too may take a leap of faith at some point.
i assume that, since you couldn't make the trip personally, you asked if you could at least have a local F-chatter check it out ?

i disagree Jay...everything that i see tells me that is a serious car and i'll be very, very surprised if it turns out to be otherwise...
and perhaps, rather than hiding something, he doesn't have time (or wasn't inclined) to 'jump through' any pre-sale hoops when he's just giving his car away anyway...
i've known that to happen on many, many occasions...and frankly, my mindset wouldn't be that different if it were my car.
right, wrong, whatever...if i was giving my 400 away, it would be kind like 'well, it's $30K...do you want it or not ?'...if you need to spend some money on it, join the club.
'cause, looking at those pics i can tell you, somebody's 'into' that car for a ton of dough.
if a Seriies II 5-speed was my cup tea and i loved the colour, i would have moved mountains to get over to see that car at $34K.
maybe, just maybe, the owner sensed that and wasn't prepared invest more time in the potential buyer.

i'm not trying to start something, but a sweeping statement like "his story confirms" something, anything isn't reality...they're could be any number of other reasons.

the pics of that car speak much louder to me...but, again, 1974gt4 'walked' for the right reasons.

i would have asked the guy if that was his pad in the pics...whoever owns that place doesn't look like somebody who half-asses his stuff....know what i mean ?

 

Brett-

Well just offering my opinion- I have no idea if the car is good or bad- But my point was what's the difference?? Nice color- Nice interior- books and tools- $30K?? No brainer for me.

But you know as well as I do- many guys with nice houses with 400s and 412s who just do not drive them- and then in teh face of another $8+ repair bill they get rid of them- usually trading them in at the local "Highline" auto dealer for $20K, then auction, then wind up at Ed Waterman's shop or at Forza or wherever for $32K with a few quick and dirty repairs.

But I personally will NEVER buy a car from a seller who is uncooperative- Just a personal morality kind of thing- I don't do business with people who do not afford me the same level of respect that i am willing to afford them- so i passed on several REALLY nice cars just cause the seller was a jerk- cause it's just a car after all.

I was prepared to overpay by a substantial margin to get what i wanted, but I did make very lowball offers on a few other cars with a cash reserve to get the car up to the level I wanted-

So i totally agree that this looks like a really great car bought very cheap... But if the seller would not under ANy circumstance either share the service history or allow a PPI- then a buyer 3000 miles away HAS to pass- doesn't he?

 

Its a small world, we'll eventually find out the story of the car. Hopwefully we'll see it on the road!

Regards,

Art S.

 

Yes let's hope!! i think this is going to be a nice car for new owner-

Heck I probably would have offered the full price when I investigated it a few months ago if it did not have the damned Blue leather/Blue carpets- just not a fave of mine.

 

Hey Art,

This car was from NJ, right? And it was shown at a number of local Ferrari event (like the fall festival in the Morristown area)? Somebody must know this car? I believe I have seen the car in person a couple of times, but never really looked it over...

 

seems we're on the same page...

and i'm not suggesting for a moment that the car is a Bella Machina contender (shift knob, aerial, etc.), but from what i see, the value proposition seems outstanding.

like you, i'm just working off a gut feeling...or did you go after this car ?

is that why you say the guy flat-out refused a PPI or to provid service history ? because i didn't get that from what 1974gt4 said...
from his comments it came across that the owner just wasn't overly accomodating to those requests.

 

Brett-

Yeah sort of- $38k seemed cheap to me for a 5-speed in that kind of shape- So I did inquire about it- but then the next day I saw the Blue 412 in Florida and for me personally, I just did not care for the blue dash/blue carpet. Once I saw a few photos I sort of dropped it.

From pictures the red interiors looked AWFUL and the blue looked GREAT- but to my eye, in person, I loved the red and bought it while the blue did not appeal to me.

 

Well, that may or may not be true but the guy walked away from $3,400 because it was too much trouble to have his car loaded onto a flatbed for a cost free roundtrip to the PPI and back.

No amount of looking at photos can tell you what the compression and leak down tests will tell you about engine condition and no amount of photos will tell you about the condition of the clutch, the synchros in the transmission and whether there is a differential whine.

A buyer can expect to replace tires, suspension bushings, maybe even a clutch or some synchros and a bunch of other things but the real deal killer would be a duff engine.

A full engine rebuild will cost $25K and that is the biggest risk that I see on this deal. Maybe there is a 95% probability that it is fine, but how would anyone know without the PPI?

Just sayin'

 

yup...like i said a couple of times or more...he walked for the right reasons...but he might have walked away from a really, really good car.

no big deal...Series II's seem to come up a little more often and, as he said, he really ought buy a car that's already Kalifornicated.

but "Mario", i asked a couple of questions that i'm curious about, if you wouldn't mind indulging me...

did the owner flat-out refuse a PPI and refuse to show paperwork...because that's what is been implied here...or, as i asked previously, was he just sluggish to get to it ?

and did you see if somebody local to the car good go see it, so the owner wasn't put out at all and you could have some feedback ? if you did, did he refuse ?

thanks...and i really promise to let this go after that...

oh, one more thing...do you think you've spent enough time with the '400 gang' now that we ought to have a real name to call you by...first, at least ?

 

BTW, the seller of this car had it on the market since 2006. The car has covered 4,000 miles between 2000 and 2011 or I should say the odometer has advanced by that amount.

 

hmmm...pity.

 

Welcome Joseph-

yeah you and I have been down the same road- Lots of dead ends and uncooperative sellers- Torn between the sporting nature of the 5 Speed and the elegance and smoothness of the auto... Torn between the various colors... wondering whether it's better to buy the best one out there or buy a car a little cheaper and bank some dough for repairs and restoration....

I wound up with both a 5 speed and an auto - and absolutely NO regrets- You always gotta listen to your HEART when buying expensive toys- cause the math never adds up...

 

Joseph, be patient. I sifted through a few options, also missed a few opportunities (not without some frustration, mind you), before I was able to execute on something. Things happen for a reason. The old cliche rings true, when one door closes, another opens. If you want it to happen, it will. Just keep at it.

 

thanks Joseph.

brett

 

You guys talk a lot about "400s", but the 365s are pretty much the same car aren't they? Or are they? Moto Exotica in St. Louis has a 365 w/ 5 speed that I like a lot... Comments? Anybody know anything about that car?

 

Randy,

poke around this section a bit. I think you will find that the brown 365 you referred to has been discussed extensively. Brett, care to comment...

Regards,

Art S.

 

Uh-oh. I don't like the sound of that. I just spoke to my buddy who is an employee at one the better known shops, and he said, "Get a 550, you'll be a LOT happier."

So now I know what I really want: a 365 GT4 2+2 with a transplant of engine, driveshaft and transaxle from a 550.

That'd be an easy job, no?

 

No.

 

Oh well, I think the problems that my buddy is concerned about are exaggerated. I emailed his boss - we'll see what the great man has to say...

Has anyone ever gotten rid of the distributors by installing a modern ignition system? I think that would be a good mod that wouldn't mess with the character of the car, and solve what sounds like the biggest headache.

Can the cam chain be changed with the engine in place?

 

A couple of months ago Miller Motorcars had a 550 offered for something in the neighborhood of $75K. I have to say that the prices of 550s are getting pretty attractive.

 

Chain can be replaced with the engine in the car. Basically everything except for the oil/waterpumps can be done with the engine in the car. I still think these engines are bulletproof and only need basic maintenance and if you can work on say a Fiat 124 Spider, you can do the maintenance yourself. Technical parts are available and no too expensive compared to fi Porsche parts

 

For sure- In fact- get a BMW 5 Series- You'll be INCREDIBLY happier.

These are classics- Vintage cars that are not old enough to be expensive...yet. If you don't absolutely love the idea of a 365/400/412... don't buy one for performance.