Are Ferrari owners mainly short-time owners?

I traded my 2002 360 Coupe, which I purchased in January of this year, for a 2003 360 Spider in August of this year. I really loved both cars. I was about to trade the 360 Spider for a 430 Spider but have changed my mind. I think the 360 looks much better than the 430 and I do not think that the 430 is worth over $100k more than the 360. I was tempted on buying another 360 coupe since I missed the yellow one I have traded in, but decided to purchase a 430 coupe once the price have stabilized. I intend on keeping the 360 Spider indefinitely. It is such a user friendly,and always dependable vehicle unlike my other exotic cars. It is classy, good looking, comfortable, and super easy to drive. Good luck to you and shoot me a note or give me a call if I can be of any help.

Gustan
[email protected]
847-774-8246

 

These are toys. Some people like to play with one toy, some people like to collect toys, others like to play for a little while and then trade for a different one. Me, I planned on trading quickly but fell in love and have had it for over a decade.

Regards,

Art S.

 

I havn't owned an F-car (not yet any way) but I do work on allot of them and other exotic and/or high end vehicles.

I don't think it is specific to F- car owners. I think it is common with wealthy people that can purchase these types of vehicles new.

My typical affluent client flips his/her vehicle in about a year to a year 1/2. Why? They want the latest model and/or they love cars and can only have so many. I currently have a client that wants to sell a 2007 M6 because the lights on the '08 are different. The M6 is in perfect condition with less than 4000 miles on it. I have another client that has his new GTC for sale to make room for another car (which happens to be an SLR convertible). Another recently traded in a land rover for the exact vehicle with a dark colored interior.

Do a quick search for any high-end vehicle that is about a year or two old and you will find many very nice near new super low mileage cars.

 

I think for a lot of people F-ownership has been a dream and a goal. Once they achieve that they might get easily disillusioned. There are factors that you just don't realize until you own one too i.e. spouse doesn't like it, some hidden maintenance surprises, the car attracts attention, reaction from neighbors and friends, the limited usage you really get out of it etc. Many just don't want to tie up that much money either. So, in a nutshell those who get rid of them quickly do so because ownership doesn't meet expectations for whatever reason.

 

Yes, some of those came to mind. Possible list of reasons:

1. A Ferrari is ridiculously high profile. It sounds fantastic in concept, then you realize having all eyes on you is fun sometimes... but not that often.
2. Guys worry about long-term maintenance -- might as well sell it before that F1 clutch needs replacing. The Ferrari parts catalogue reads like a horror novel.
3. Short attention span -- time for a new toy (i.e., the fun is the chase)
4. Ferrari turned out to be just a car after all... the legend was so far out there that the actual car, no matter how good, causes the disillusionment SrfCity mentioned.
5. Ferrari owners are wealthy and like to try a lot of new cars. Life is short.
6. Maybe the OP is wrong - most normal MY2000 cars have already gone through 2 or 3 owners, and we all have this weird notion that Ferrari owners should keep their cars for 10 or 20 years.
7. Ferrari owners want their cars to be perfect, and the fact is that any car that is driven is less than perfect.
8. The person bought the wrong model Ferrari -- i.e., they "settled" for the wrong color, wrong gearbox, wrong body style, etc.
9. Another dream car comes along at the right moment and the only option is to sell the current Ferrari.
10. Expanding family -- hard to stick a child seat in a 360 Spider.
11. Relocating to a cold climate where the car will have to be stored 4 months a year.
12. Divorce.
13. A lot of wannabes finance their way into a late model Ferrari and realize they're pissing away half their net income on a car they rarely drive.
14. etc.

FWIW, I think the older ones will tend to change hands less often. It took me a year to find a 328 in the colors I wanted, and mileage/condition, and it would take an incredible find to convince me to move on to another car.

 

One case I'm somewhat familiar with is the previous owner on my 328. I don't think he visits here.

He bought the car from a doctor who had it for nine years. He then had to replace the alternator pulley. He then hit something, and it spent a few months (in the summer) getting fixed. The next summer, he managed to burn out the clutch, and in the process of blaming the car, got sold a gearbox rebuild. So for the two years he owned it, it spent most of both summers in the shop, and winters (it was Boston) in the garage.

And it was pretty clear that he never did get the hang of driving it.

I bought it, put a bit into getting it "made right", and have had it the eight years since.

So I'll add one to Jon's list:

14. These are Italian cars. Alfas are similar, but you don't see many of those around either.

Most cars today are fitted out with tons of "driver aids".

"Drivers" today (or, as I call them, "front seat passengers", "along for the riders", or "meanderthals") tend to want to gab on cell phones, drink "energy drinks", or listen to the traffic reports. When they buy sports cars, they want to think they're Mario Andretti .... without having to go through the training. They want to think they're "naturals".

Italian cars tend to be geared to a different market. "Drive" is a verb, not a gear. When you take an Italian car to the limits, it gets very sensitive to driver inputs. While a Porker's computer will make the driver feel like he's better than he is, Italian cars will point out every flaw in driver technique.

I had a mechanic once ask why I kept the Alfa, when I have the Ferrari. I told him it was for "refresher training". I can drive both the Ferrari and the ricer all year on the street, and hardly ever get near the limits. (Until it snows.) The Alfa gets much closer to its limits at lower speed, and tends to announce minor driver errors in loud tire squeals without quite losing traction.

The thing about getting better is that you have to accept having your shortcomings pointed out. People who pay a lot for a sports car want to *think* they're already good drivers. They don't want to have the car tell them how far they have yet to go.

Certainly the PO on my 328 tended to blame the car for his lack of technique. Even after owning Fiats and Alfas for a quarter century prior, I still took a few months to get the feel of the Ferrari at the limits. (It will go into 2nd when cold ... if you match revs correctly.)

It's not "plug 'n play". (Or "pay 'n play".)

I think there's a similar turn-over rate in light aircraft. Not everyone who can afford them wants to invest the time to stay proficient in operating them.


Oh, and another one:

15. Owners worry about reducing resale by putting miles on the clock. Then they realize that they're paying a lot of insurance on a car they never drive.

(Combine the two: people spend 11 months in a minivan or Lexus, and when they do get the Ferrari out for a rare drive, they've forgotten how to drive it -- so those rare drives aren't all that enjoyable.)

Of course, resale isn't an issue if you never plan to sell.

 

These are all good points. Here is my thinking on what I actually have done and will do.

I went through 2 brand new 599's in 12 months. Why:

1. I ordered my first car in RS with beige, monobloc wheels, etc. I quickly felt very 2004 CS and regretted my choices. Also the first cars have bugs and I grew weary. Very easy for me to sell and move on

2. My second car was perfection in my eyes. I used it for a fantastic trip. But I found I did not like it as a DD.

3. I have a lot of options about how I spend my time and energy. I plan at least 6 months ahead. Any driving trips that involved the 599 seemed unlikely over the next 6 month window as I was focussing on other areas. Friend wanted the car, sold it in half an hour. That simple

599 is an easy example because demand is great. But the same would be true if I bought a 612 and had to face a protracted sale and take a loss. I don't care. I buy the car that best suits what I want to do with it and a 612 or 2+2 car will very much suit my needs at some point. I could have easily kept the 599 as a DD and financially it would have made sense. Problem is that I did not like it for that purpose.

At anytime I have on order 3 or 4 cars. I will not keep them all. I like to try different things. I was the first to buy a Golf GTI simply because I wanted to play with the DSG gearbox. I am buying an Evo X for a similar reason. I suspect I will keep my 430S for at least a few years. The F149 looks like it will be perfect as a DD. I am inclined to think that the F142S will be a perfect DD for me but I might not keep the F149B for too long as I suspect that I will like the 430S better.

I plan to die with my 288 GTO and it would take something exceptional for me to part with my F40 or Daytona. Bullfighter is right, older cars are less likely to change hands especially of they are rather hard to replace later.

Non-DD cars fall into the same general category as contemporary art. Tastes, interest etc change over time. If you like looking at it, you tend to keep it. If you wonder why you bought it, on the way to the exit.

 

Exactly!
In addition,a lot of Ferrari owners like to change cars very often ( I myself ,go through 2 daily drivers per year,switching between various AMGs,Ms and Porsches)

 

I also agree that once you get your first one you satisfy the original lust I lusted after a TR since the first time I saw one in the mid 80s once I had it I loved it but wanted something more modern and easier to drive around town so I got a 355 Spider the concept was to get rid of the TR but I just couldnt so I kept both I finally after 4 years traded the TR and the 355 for my 02 360 Spider which I love and I dare say in a couple of years I will trade for a 430. I kind of collect cars and always have but also believe in upgrading where it makes sense.

 

True, probably a fair number of short-term owners are on a chronic quest for a low odometer reading. Buy a 5K-miles car, drive it till 9K miles, sell. Repeat.

I suppose I wish my odometer didn't go up every year, but my perspective on it is that I bought a low (but not stupidly low) mileage '80s Ferrari. By the time it reaches 'sale-proof' mileage (probably anything over 50K miles on a 328, as of 2007), it will probably be worth what I paid for it anyway - if the cars edge up in value - or it will be irrelevant because I will have decided it's a lifetime keeper and I'll just have it restored/rebuilt when it gives out.

 

I'll go out on a limb here and generalize somewhat but I believe based on reading this site over the years there are 3 groups of owners. Now granted there are exceptions but for the most part I think this covers the majorities.
Group 1 is Pre 308 cars and also include Super cars.
Group 2 is 3X8 to 355 and also the BB 12's
Group 3 is all late models both 8's and 12's

Group 1 I believe are true collectors who either R&R these cars or have them restored. They hold these cars as show pieces and do not drive them or only put on a few miles a year.

Group 2 are the motorheads who have limited funds but dreamed of owning a Ferrari. They like to work on the cars themselves and enjoy driving them. They find fixing them is as enjoyable as driving them. They are looking for ways to do this without spending a great deal of money.

Group 3 are folks who have the funds to buy and flip these cars. They use these cars as a measure of their success and although they enjoy driving them they can take them or leave them. I think overall that there are a lot more 360's and future 430's that will get flipped in a short period of time. There might be a cost/service concern here but I doubt that money is an issue.

So this is a short version of what I had interpolated from the past years here and as I mentioned it has it's exceptions.

 

Good observations. Some people are in 2 or 3 of the groups

 

I picked up an '08 Audi TT with the DSG (same as the Golf GTI unit) for the same reason. I like a lot of variety in daily drivers, so it's usually 2-3 years then out. By then, the technology has advanced and the cars feel dated anyway. Some of the short-term ownership may be a result of the increased technology component of cars.

With the older Ferraris, you buy them because you like that recipe -- trading "up" defeats the purpose. (I admit I would like to have an F40 - probably the ultimate car of its era. But even with an F40 I still wouldn't be in a hurry to sell the 328.) A manual gearbox/clutch, Momo steering wheel with no airbag to ruin it, unassisted steering and brakes/suspension that are controlled by the driver (and not the HAL9000) are like the red wine of automotivedom or a fine navy worsted suit: they just don't go out of style.

 

The only trading that you tend to do on the older/supercar fcars is up. Daytona for 275 GTB/4, etc. F40 for F40LM

 

LMAO in Admiral's JFK

 

One other reason for recent cars like the 360 to be traded in so much is that some people buy them to appease the dealers (i.e. build a relationship). Let's say you never owned a Ferrari before and are enthralled by the 430 and want to buy. You go to the dealer and are shocked that you need to wait 4 years for it. To get on a favorable position on the list, you buy the previous gen car as a standby (cue 360) to hold on to till your 430 arrives.

 

I like where you're going with that thought, but I'd say that it's the Daily Drivers that are like contemporary art, with the vintage and supercar Ferraris being more like art by the Masters.

 

Agreed. I was using "up" in a technology sense. There are reasons to go from a Daytona to a 275, but they aren't the performance reasons that would have a 360 owner dumping his car to get an F430S.

 

Well, after reading all these theories, I agree with most... but i'm thankful for 1 thing.
If there werent all these rich people constantly flipping these cars and taking huge losses every time, us ''average income'' people could never afford to own any Ferrari... even the older 80's models!
If people bought them and held onto them for years and years, they would hold thier value better (or appreciate) and would be totally unattainable to losers like me!

 

I think most people in the US who buy Ferraris get a used one first. Then one of the following things happen:

1. They find out they really aren't "Ferrari" people. Car gets too much attention, needs too much attention and really isn't much like a Lexus or even a Porsche. Even if new Ferraris were price competitive with Corvettes, I think the Corvette would outsell Ferraris (in the U.S.).

2. They have the car of their dreams and keep it for a very long time.

3. They get addicted to Ferraris as well as the search for Ferraris and become "serial collectors", trading often. I fell into this myself, keeping my first 3 Ferraris an average of just 13 months. The next two, I kept 33 and 31 months. Finally, #6, a 328 GTB, I have had 6 years and counting. Added a new 430, now at 28 months but still not sure how long I will keep it. I've been getting the itch to shop lately but not sure what direction I'll go.

Dave

 

I'll have to take your word on that???

 

outstanding post !

me, i have commitment issues with cars. i keep them awhile, and want another. 4 ferraris and 2 lambos so far, and counting. to me, i would rather have specific years and models for a short time, and remember how fun they were, than have one of anything for a long time. at least when i am old and drooling on my self, ( if i CAN remember) i will have had some really cool metal as far as cars go.


things will be very different for my generation when i am my parents age. i am in my late 30's, they are in their 60's. i want the cool cars NOW....

to hell with all this computer car crap.

 

I confess, I am probably solidly in group three although it is not a status symbol for me, rather I enjoy driving them.

 

Maybe they sell when they realize that driving their dream car 10,000 miles per year would cost them $7 or $8 per mile instead of the $1 or $2 they assumed.

I project that a 360 driven 10K per year might sell at $50,000 less than a 2-3K per year model. ie, a 2K per year 2004 spider might have 6K at selling time and bring $160,000; a 10K per year 2004 spider has 30K and is lucky to bring $110,000

$8/mile driving (depreciation and maintenance only, not including gas, loss of use of the funds to buy, and insurance) is an eye opener. Think of a net loss of $80,000 for driving 10K miles per year for three years (vs $30,000 you would lose if you did not drive it much).

Then there are nicks dings scratches and curb rash for cars actually driven (all to be fixed before the car could be considered ready for resale). Sales tax here in NJ adds 7% to the transaction cost on purchase.

It seems like the choice is buy it and look at it or buy it and sell it, but if you drive it get ready to pay through the nose. After adding insurance and cost of funds maybe $10/mile for driving a lot. Go out to dinner 10 miles away and pay $200 for driving and $200 for dinner.

The car retains value if you do not drive it, but where is the fun in that?