Are clogged charcoal canisters related to cracked fuel pump covers? | FerrariChat

Are clogged charcoal canisters related to cracked fuel pump covers?

Discussion in '360/430' started by Jaymac, Feb 7, 2024.

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  1. Jaymac

    Jaymac Formula Junior
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    Dec 18, 2020
    881
    New Hampshire
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    Jeremy McCurdy
    Just curious. I’m about to replace my charcoal canister due to slow filling at the pump. Being as my understanding is that the clogged canister doesn’t allow vapor to escape while filling, could this same condition allow excessive fuel vapor pressure to accumulate in the tanks and lead to premature cracking of the tops of the pumps?
    Just wondering if the two are related. My two pumps are original, and so far so good.
     
    AHudson likes this.
  2. anotherred360

    anotherred360 Formula Junior

    Jan 10, 2015
    276
    USA
    Possibly. I just swapped in a new charcoal canister today and it has one open vent/outlet at the top that nothing connects to.

    I replaced due to the same problem of having to add gas slowly. Not 100% sure it will fix it, but they are a maintenance item either way.

    Install was a bit of a chore. I had the rear bumper off already doing headers and exhaust, plus had the rear wheel liner and tail lights out. I did leave the rear grille in but I'm not sure removing it would allow enough room to remove the canister without the bumper coming off. If you've deleted the AIR pump in might be easier.

    It will be a week or so before I know if it worked. I hit a snag with the alternator tensioner bolt/pin breaking off during the header install. I think they were cross threaded by a previous owner and my work finished them off, so car is down until I get more parts.
     
  3. Jaymac

    Jaymac Formula Junior
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    Jeremy McCurdy
    I’m hoping to snake it out through the wheel well liner, as it’s right there as soon as you remove the liner. I need to take that off anyway to replace one sleeve on the bumper bolts (long story). I hope to not have to remove the bumper again, but if I do, it be a last resort. I’ve seen people do it just by pulling the rear grille.
    I’ve also been there with the alternator tensioner bolt. Forgot it was a reverse thread :rolleyes:
     
  4. anotherred360

    anotherred360 Formula Junior

    Jan 10, 2015
    276
    USA
    It wouldn't go that way on mine. There was a small triangulating brace piece under the canister that can't be removed that was blocking it by a tiny bit. If you undo the air pump hose/hard pipe connection so that you can remove air pump body, that might allow you to remove without taking the grille off.
     
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  5. F-Serge

    F-Serge Formula 3

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  6. collegeboy

    collegeboy Formula 3
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    How much do the canisters cost?
     
  7. anotherred360

    anotherred360 Formula Junior

    Jan 10, 2015
    276
    USA
    ~$260. I know it's a pretty simple contraption, just not worth the trouble for that price imo.
     
  8. DutchFerrari

    DutchFerrari Formula Junior

    Apr 7, 2022
    726
    Bollenstreek - Netherlands
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    Jeroen
    Is this specifically for 360's (seeing Aldous article only speaks of 360's) or also for the F430? mine is a lil ***** to fill everytime, clicking every 4 or 5 liters, and having to go again, and it makes me wonder is it actually full after so many times, or is it still to be filled, as i dont want to overfill it.... (last time before parking her up for winter i had to click the pump more than 10x to get to a full tank...
     
  9. CoreyNJ

    CoreyNJ Formula 3
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    Apr 17, 2006
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    NEVER EVER EVER fill up a 430 to the top. This was my practice and must have been the previous owner's SOP.

    Cost me a couple of grand because the 430 is more than just a canister and some check valves, there is an expensive diagnostics pump as well. The good thing is that generally, it will throw a CEL if the canister is messed up on the 430.
     
    Jaymac likes this.
  10. Jaymac

    Jaymac Formula Junior
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    Unless I’m missing something, that article doesn’t offer an alternative to replacing the canister. Just explains the system and shows a used one broken down.
     
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  11. Jaymac

    Jaymac Formula Junior
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    Jeremy McCurdy
    I’ve heard of techs advising to never fill either of these cars all the way to the top, as it’s good preventative maintenance to avoid premature failure of the failure-prone fuel pumps.
     
  12. CoreyNJ

    CoreyNJ Formula 3
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    Apr 17, 2006
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    I have a 2009, so the updated fuel pumps so I don't think that is an issue, but when you overfill a 430, some fuel can leak into the canister turning the charcoal to goo over time, this can cause it to clog and mess up the check valves and diagnostics pump for the system requiring the entire system to be replaced.
     
    Jaymac likes this.
  13. GogglesPisano

    GogglesPisano F1 Rookie
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    Sep 13, 2022
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    So which company is going to be the first to come up with a lightweight CF charcoal canister with a serviceable element? :D
     
  14. anotherred360

    anotherred360 Formula Junior

    Jan 10, 2015
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    You can cut the canister in half and replace the gummed-up old charcoal with the stuff used for aquariums and air filters.
     
  15. DutchFerrari

    DutchFerrari Formula Junior

    Apr 7, 2022
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    Jeroen
    mine is a 2009 so also with the updated fuel pumps, and i never want to go al the way full like on my normal cars, when the pump shuts of you click it another 5 times orso, on the F430 i wudnt do that, but issue is it already clicks at like 5L with an empty tank, so made me think could it be the canister on our car....
     
  16. LorenzoR

    LorenzoR F1 Rookie
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    I go down to 1/4 tank, then fill to 3/4 every time I get gas. I never ever fill it up. With that said I get the clicking while pumping gas to
     
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  17. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,905
    Isle of man- uk
    You have been spending again !! Must put a note on my calendar.
     
  18. anotherred360

    anotherred360 Formula Junior

    Jan 10, 2015
    276
    USA
    I've been battling an issue with my mid-90's Landcruiser where it boils the gas when I go from lower elevation to higher elevation, and if I get on an incline it will spill heavily out from around the gas cap. Replacing the charcoal filter did nothing to fix it, and the only thing that has worked is ethanol-free gas. I have zero problems when using ethanol-free gas. No excess pressure when taking the cap off and no spilling out of the filler neck on steep inclines. I could potentially still have a problem elsewhere, but my thinking is that some older EVAP systems can't handle the amount of ethanol in the gas these days.
     
  19. Scottrx7tt

    Scottrx7tt Karting

    Oct 5, 2023
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    Scott Williams
    He explains that the charcoal can be changed out, but how the heck do you close it back up once you have cut it open?
     
  20. Scottrx7tt

    Scottrx7tt Karting

    Oct 5, 2023
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    Scott Williams
    Someone mentioned in another thread about charcoal canisters that the EVAP system is from a 90s model GM Car, but failed to offer exactly what vehicle. I have searched on google to try to find one that has the correct ports but cannot find the exact one. Wondering if you could just tee a few of the lines together?
     
  21. anotherred360

    anotherred360 Formula Junior

    Jan 10, 2015
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    #21 anotherred360, Feb 10, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2024
    Epoxy. You can have my old one for the cost of shipping if you want to experiment on it. If yours happens to be a '99 I think it's a different part though.

    Probably. I did a reverse image search and some Cadillac/Oldsmobile ones look close, but appear to be missing a vent. I'm using a Pontiac one on my Landcruiser, but the hoses have no fittings and connect directly to the barbs. I'm not sure how universal the factory Ferrari fittings are, but the hoses don't have much slack, and you'll need to fab a bracket.
     
  22. auto_enthusiast

    Feb 13, 2024
    1
    I have the same problem. I just bought one works great and is universal called "Vapor Trapper". Very good quality also the charcoal medium is also replaceable as well. I highly recommend this! Hope this helps :) If ya'll are interested you can check out www.vaportrapper.com
     
  23. F-Serge

    F-Serge Formula 3

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  24. tomw

    tomw Formula 3
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    Feb 25, 2004
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    haha hey guys i wonder if anyones ever thought of making a metal charcoal cylinder that you can service

    nah probably not. if they had im sure they’d mention it and maybe like create a few other accounts to promote it too
     
  25. GogglesPisano

    GogglesPisano F1 Rookie
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    I don't think anything like that exists. If it does, I certainly haven't heard about it several times from random accounts that just appeared. If only someone could post up a website where things like this could be purchased, I'd probably become a believer.
     
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