Any Honda dirt bike experts here? | FerrariChat

Any Honda dirt bike experts here?

Discussion in 'Motorcycles & Boats' started by Subarubrat, Oct 17, 2016.

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  1. Subarubrat

    Subarubrat Formula 3

    Apr 1, 2009
    2,072
    VA
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    Scott
    I just bought a 1984 XR350R for very specific reasons, and yes it had to be this bike. I have owned several bikes, a supercharged Buell X1, Harley Heritage Springer, and others. I have restored many cars and airplanes and the big picture of a vehicle restoration is pretty clear but I am hoping to pick up some tips and tricks here on Fchat.

    My reason why is this; I am a pilot and have my planes at a historical grass strip airport and most of the guys there have a variety of go karts, scooters, mini bikes, etc to get around the airport and for general shenannigans. In the movie Iron Eagle the main character Doug Masters races a Cessna against a local jerk who rides a Honda XR350R. So naturally if I am going to have an airport bike it has to be that bike. And of course after two years of looking almost all of them are part out jobs on ebay or wrecks. I finally managed to find a good one with all the bits there, super compression and no obvious problems other than being a 30 year old bike.

    I tore it down and have sent the frame, handle bar, kick stand, exhaust, swing arm, and other bits off to the powder coater that does great color matching.

    This is my starting set of questions, I am hoping Fchat has it's usual supply of experts on all things to comment.

    I ordered an OEM upper and lower end seal kit for the engine, the head and valve gasket kits are not the same as what I pulled out of an obviously unopened engine. The originals for the valve cover and cyl head were metal, the OEM kits have non metal ones. What is the best path, reuse the original metal ones or use the OEM kit?

    ANY of the after market kits say they are complete other than oil seals. WTF are the oil seals and do I have them in the OEM kit?

    This bike has the double carbs, any guidance on overhaul kits?
    The factory manual makes reference to a special tool for setting up float height, any real world measurements out there?

    Are there any suggestions for carb jets? Any tune up options, and how do I source the correct carb overhaul kits?

    The manual has a reference to removing the exhaust and intake silencers if noise restrictions are not a problem in your area. Is there any performance to be gained by removing them and which one would sound closer to the movie?

    The manual references an oil strainer in addition to the oil filter, there is NO evidence of this engine being opened yet no oil strainer was present, any ideas on this?

    As far as suspension setup, this bike will be uses to run around an airport in open grass fields and mild bumps, any advice? I am fairly short and is there a way to lower the bike a tad to make starting easier?


    The one plastic part I have that is bad is the front fender, know of a good source?
     
  2. Todd308TR

    Todd308TR F1 World Champ

    Nov 25, 2010
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  3. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 10, 2007
    6,503
    Lake Villa IL
    Very cool, that scene in Iron Eagle is bad ass. Wouldn't say I'm an expert but I have/rebuilt an 86 XL600R which is also a dual carb thumper.

    I used a dynojet jet kit. Runs great, I verified with a wideband so I would have good confidence with that again.

    As for the gaskets, I used all OEM, would not chance aftermarket personally.

    Todd is on point with his link, anything you need to know will be there.
     
  4. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2005
    99,342
    Mount Isa, Australia
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    Pap
    I have a friend that loves anything to do with Honda dirt bikes and he is an expert on the CR250 and CR500 motorbikes.

    He owns around 8x 1993/94/07 CR250s and 4x 2001 CR500s.

    A few have been fully restored, the rest are slowly getting there.

    He wants to fully restore them all and I am his "parts man". Seeing as my mate does not have a Paypal account, he gives me money and I buy him all OEM parts for these builds.

    I just found him a NOS 1994 CR250 seat and seat foam. I paid AU $830 for this seat for him. Yes...........this guy is nuts!

    I just placed a $5000 order with Motosport for OEM parts for his bikes. All OEM nuts and bolts too, he doesn't mess around.

    Check this sites out mate and place an ad looking for a front fender to suit your XR350R with vintagebikeads.

    Dirt Bike & Motocross Online Store | MotoSport

    www.vintagebikeads.com

    My mate has had A LOT of luck finding parts with vintagebikeads, including that $800 seat last week. :D
     
  5. klp

    klp Rookie

    Mar 13, 2015
    4
    Lots of questions here.

    You bought am OEM gasket kit ,A and B - correct? That does not include oil seals but you should purchase and replace them all. Same with any parts you are buying - go with OEM, carb kits, the whole deal. I would tune then stock and leave the exhaust alone. You can get more power by rejetting, modded pipe and airbox. Not worth it IMO.

    You can set float height no problem without the special tool. If you can't reach the ground the easiest way is to carve the seat down. Lowering the suspension on a dirtbike is not ideal.
     
  6. rdefabri

    rdefabri Three Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 4, 2008
    33,571
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    Rich
    With respect to parts, don't pass up your local Honda motorcycle dealer. No lie, I have a 1967 Honda CL/77 Scrambler, and I needed a part (I think it was a clutch cable).

    Walked into the Honda dealer, sure as shine - they had it!!! Even the parts manager was shocked, but they carried it. I've always had great success getting parts for any of my Honda items at the local dealer, it's worth a shot if you need something in a pinch.
     
  7. Subarubrat

    Subarubrat Formula 3

    Apr 1, 2009
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    Thanks for all the great input here, far more useful than the Thumpertalk, the only response I got there was a tiny debate over whether or not it was really an XR350 or an XR600, there is a mountain of proof that it is an XR350.

    "You bought am OEM gasket kit ,A and B - correct? That does not include oil seals but you should purchase and replace them all. Same with any parts you are buying - go with OEM, carb kits, the whole deal. I would tune then stock and leave the exhaust alone. You can get more power by rejetting, modded pipe and airbox. Not worth it IMO."

    Yes, I got the A and B kit, the no oil seals included was a bit confusing because there was no definition of what they were calling oil seals but after comparing the kits to the shop manual and the engine itself I figured out what was missing, the Honda part numbers don't come up on ebay but per suggestions here I will check with the Honda dealer. And will look there for the carb kits as well.

    PROGRESS SO FAR
    Frame, swingarm and all the levers, kickstarter etc. were all powdercoated and look amazing.
    The engine is almost all back together after the new gasket kits, just needs seals and painting. New plug, ignition coil, and decals are in hand.
    Rear damper is cleaned, tested, and refilled.
    New plastics other than the tank have arrived, tank will get cleaned up and polished.

    Pics soon!
     
  8. JV's89

    JV's89 F1 Veteran
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    Jul 18, 2006
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    I would imagine that bike has a pretty beefy rear tire, so you might be able to lower the seat hieght by finding a smaller tire of the same wheel diameter.

    Also, maybe pull the forks up in the clamps. You will sacrifice some stability, but for your intended use I think you would be fine.

    The more drastic approach would be to change the length of the link in the rear suspension.
    I fabricated my own and lowered my KDX. I imagine the Honda would be similar.

    Shouldn't be a problem to lower it a little, just avoid the triples ! :D
     
  9. klp

    klp Rookie

    Mar 13, 2015
    4
    Sounds great - waiting on the pics!

    The oil seals surround any holes in the crankscase/engine. You have one around your kicker, shifter, countershaft, and probably one in the top end around the end of the cam - drive for either points or CDI.

    They are pretty easy to replace - just pry them out and tap them in evenly.
     
  10. Subarubrat

    Subarubrat Formula 3

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    #11 Subarubrat, Nov 6, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  11. Subarubrat

    Subarubrat Formula 3

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    Is there a source for accurate reproductions of the hand guards used on the XR350s? I can't find one but for all I know it might be the same as the 250 or some other bike that is offered somewhere.
     
  12. 77GTB

    77GTB Rookie

    Oct 14, 2014
    14
    East Bay, CA
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Ah! My first bike was an '83 XR350R! Can't wait to see some pics of your finished bike, frame looks incredible. Unfortunately, I got rid of that bike before I really started tinkering so I wouldn't be much help finding your answers. Some riding buddies used to have XR400's and would swear by XRs ONLY - DIRT BIKE | ATV | UTV | DUAL SPORT | SUPERMOTO - Powersports Parts & Performance Service for parts and upgrades. Two of them, being vertically challenged, installed lowering kits from XR's Only that worked well. Not sure if those kits exist for or can be modified to 350s. Good luck!
     
  13. Subarubrat

    Subarubrat Formula 3

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    #14 Subarubrat, Nov 9, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I found quite a few parts on XRs Only, good site! I did run into one glitch though, when reinstalling the cam assembly, it makes reference to timing marks that should be parallel to the cylinder head. that is all fine and good but the cam could easily be 180 out of phase, they seem to make no reference or allowance for this, can it honestly not matter? I suppose if you consider a sacrificial spark on the exhaust stroke that being 180 deg out would be fine, sanity check anyone?
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  14. GTHill

    GTHill F1 World Champ
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    Jul 1, 2006
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    This is super bad ass. The XR350 is one of my fav bikes. I'm sure I've ridden quite a few. I great up a Kawi guy but my neighbor (older guy growing up) had a BUNCH of Hondas. Still does actually.

    I just noticed this thread wasn't in silver where I'm used to being. I'll send the link to my brother. These bikes were a staple in the desert in Central Oregon.

    And the Iron Eagle thing... great reference and reason. :)

    GT
     
  15. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 10, 2007
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    #16 INTMD8, Nov 11, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2016
    Yes it doesn't matter, you are just on a different stroke.

    The cam is "180 out" every revolution of the crank being the cam sprocket is twice as big as the crank sprocket.

    Edit- and yes to confirm it is waste spark so it fires on the compression and exhaust stroke therefore doesn't matter which way the cam is flopped but easier to time with lobes facing upwards.
     
  16. Subarubrat

    Subarubrat Formula 3

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    Thanks for the sanity check, I could see it was a wasted spark arrangement but I have no experience with Honda dirtbike engines so I wanted to be sure.

    When I installed the cam I tried both orientations and no matter what when the flywheel mark was centered the cam marks were not perfectly parallel with the cyl head. It was a tiny bit off center to either direction depending on which orientation or chain tooth (by slightly I mean one dot visible just above the cyl head and one dot just below) so I went with slightly ahead.
     
  17. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    #18 INTMD8, Nov 11, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Yes mine was the same when I put it together. Cam appeared slightly retarded with the original timing chain and slightly advanced with the new one if I remember correctly.
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  18. Subarubrat

    Subarubrat Formula 3

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    WOW, that is exactly what mine looks like so it seems nominal.
     
  19. Subarubrat

    Subarubrat Formula 3

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    First major step, rear suspension is on, the engine is just about ready to go in as well.
     
  20. Subarubrat

    Subarubrat Formula 3

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    #21 Subarubrat, Nov 17, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  21. JV's89

    JV's89 F1 Veteran
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    That's beautiful! Keep the updates coming.

    Did you modify the suspension to lower the seat height?
     
  22. Ney

    Ney F1 Veteran
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    Apr 20, 2004
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    #23 Ney, Nov 21, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
    This is why you buy a Honda. They have followed the Ford tractor business model...build a good product that lasts forever and always have parts for it, no matter how old it is. It is why I now have 5 of them ranging from a 1976 to 2015.
     
  23. Subarubrat

    Subarubrat Formula 3

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    #24 Subarubrat, Nov 30, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Another update, the engine reseal is done and it is back in the frame! Getting it back in is like one of those brain game puzzles where you have a few wire rings or something like that so I did get a few small scuffs I can easily fix.

    The further I get on it the more I am pleased to keep ordering new parts, wheel bearings, chain, sprockets, strut boots, grease fitting covers, etc. Anything that isn't in new like condition is getting replaced.
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  24. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Looking good man.
     

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