Antique Pocket Watch Identification and Restoration

I have a number of really old Verge Style pocket watches.
Google: swiss pocket watch hallmarks



Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

Are you able to open up the back of the case at all? The movement will have markings on it and tell you more about it than the case. If I’m not mistaken it is not uncommon for the case and movement manufacturer to not be the same. If you can get some pictures of that, I (as well as several others here I’m sure) can probably help you identify it.

 

My understanding is that the case, movement and lens were most often made by different craftsman. Specilists in their fields. And you will see additional markings inside.
If you know where it was made, it will help a lot.


Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

Here’s a picture of one of my Verge watches. From the early 1700’s. Image Unavailable, Please Login


Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

It is most likely marked “fast” and “slow” as that needle is used to adjust the timing of the hairspring. Very interesting that it is in English and not French which leads me to believe it is American made.

The hand written/etchings on the inside of the case are likely to be marks made by people who serviced it in the past, not uncommon to find at all. The 800M is likely denoting that the case is 80% pure Sterling Silver.

Definitely a “hunter” style watch but that doesn’t help with the ID too much.

Lastly, it looks to be a 7-jewel movement meaning that it wasn’t a top of the line (expense or accuracy) movement. Could be expensive to repair relative to the value.

Can you get a nice straight on / perpendicular image of the back of the movement and of the dial?

 

I can't offer much help with your specific watch but can offer a couple of things.

I have both of my grandfather's pocket watches. They have manufacturer's name on them with serial numbers so I was able to more easily get information on them. A surprise was that both of them were manufactured around the time both grandfathers being born. That means they both bought their watches second-hand. Neither of the watches are very valuable or exquisitely made; just practical time pieces. Obviously my grandfathers both bought them with a value-for-money mindset. There were a lot of pocket watches being made back then. Both watches were made in the USA.

One of the two watches is not working. I've opened it up and it appears the balance wheel has broken off of its axle. I've taken it to a local jeweler who said that the watchmaker they use to repair watches like this typically charges $300-ish to get them working again. This far exceeds the market value of my grandfather's watches but I was surprised that it could be repaired and I didn't think it was very expensive at all. Then again, my grandfather's watches were of common brands, so there are probably "parts" watches available to pirate parts. I haven't done it just because I would just put the watch back in a drawer. I don't know what I would do with a pocket watch. It bugs me that it doesn't work though!

It is likely your watch is not worth much money. Clearly its sentimental in value is high. Shops will push back on the value of getting it fixed but will understand when you talk about the sentimental aspect.

 

There are lots of ways to enjoy a pocket watch without wearing it regularly. For example:

Image Unavailable, Please Login

These types of cases really allow you to show them off as the art work they are. Even better, in my opinion, if it showing off a piece with family history connected to it.

 

What is the outer diameter of the hole the movement sets in in the case? That will help identify the size which is one more step.

The bridge (ok, correct term is “cock”) holding the second and third wheel bushings seems like it is fairly distinctive. I’ve been looking for old movement pictures that have that type of feature and so far, found nothing.

 

Taking as close of a look at the pictures of the back of the movement that you've posted as I can do, it appears that this uses a Cylinder-Escapement vs. a Swiss-Lever which is the modern standard. That's based on where the escape wheel is located, its appearance and really how close it comes to the axis of the balance wheel. VERY cool.

Here's a website I found quickly that explains the different types of common escapementshorology-student.org

From the wikipedia article on Escapements: "The horizontal or cylinder escapement, invented by Thomas Tompion in 1695[42] and perfected by George Graham in 1726,[43] was one of the escapements which replaced the verge escapement in pocketwatches after 1700. A major attraction was that it was much thinner than the verge, allowing watches to be made fashionably slim. Clockmakers found it suffered from excessive wear, so it was not much used during the 18th century, except in a few high-end watches with the cylinders made from ruby. The French solved this problem by making the cylinder and escape wheel of hardened steel,[42] and the escapement was used in large numbers in inexpensive French and Swiss pocketwatches and small clocks from the mid-19th to the 20th century."

So it sounds like there's quite a possibility that this was a French/Swiss made. Fits with it being a 7-Jewel (cheaper, "working man's" movement) and the time frame you think it could be from.

 

Phil,

I'm sorry for your loss.

Your great-grandfather's watch is a relatively inexpensive swiss watch (7 jewels - 7 industrial grade rubies used as bearings) that was made for the American market. You are correct that 800 refers to 80% silver. It would have been a proud early purchase after arriving here and probably worn with his 'Sunday best' when going to church. It was probably made in the 1890 - 1910 time period. It does look like a cylinder movement from the picture angle, which is quite late for cylinder movements. Shoot some shots looking between the balance wheel (the one that goes back and forth) and the wheel next to it so we can confirm. If it is, they are tricky to fix properly because of the way the escape wheel wears, that said, it is doable (BTW, the crystal/glass is no big deal). The lever you pulled out that is next to the dial allows you to set the watch rather than wind it, making it a lever set movement. Pull it out and rotate the crown, the hand should move. If I have time I may be able to find the maker and other info.


Ron,

Nice watch, looks English. Who is the maker? Have you dated the case's hallmarks? What kind of pillars does the movement have?

Regards

Art S.

 

I can’t offer any help, but I have my great-grandfather’s pocket watch too and it had enough markings that I was able to research getting it serviced. It isn’t worth much and it will cost me more to service it than it’s worth but I plan on doing it anyway, for the same reasons you mentioned. Sorry for your recent loss and hope you can get this working again and cherish the memories.

 

Phil, the last picture you posted. In my opinion is the best angle. The red arrow points to the balance wheel (smooth, toothless wheel that oscillates back and forth to keep a constant frequency of advancement). The green arrow points to the escape wheel (advances one tooth each oscillation of the balance) which is located beneath the balance wheel.. If you are able to get a zoomed in view from here we’d be able to see for sure but from what I can see, it is definitely a cylinder escapement. The escape wheel appears to have teeth stuck up from it like the spikes of a crown.

Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

There ya have it. Cylinder escapement. What's more, it looks like the wheels/pinions are in pretty good shape too. I don't notice any missing teeth/leaves. The hairspring on the balance looks to be in good shape too. When you wound it up, you said the seconds hand ticked away (smallest of the three hands, separated from the center on a "sub-dial"), right? Did you watch it for any period of time to see if the minute and hour hand moved as well?

I don't see any markings to identify it by but then, I don't really know what to look for other than very obvious things.

What I do see is that one of the screws to hold the dial feet (posts mounted to the back of the dial that stick into holes in the movement to keep it in place) is missing and the foot appears to be bent over a touch to keep it in place. Not a difficult fix at all just something to note. There is some fuzz or stray fibers mixed in there and I'm sure the oil/grease is quite old and not working as it should. A good cleaning and some fresh lube will fix that as well though.

Very cool!