458 - Antigravity Lithium Battery Fail. | FerrariChat

458 Antigravity Lithium Battery Fail.

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by v35, Jul 30, 2021.

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  1. v35

    v35 Karting

    May 15, 2013
    222
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Aaron
    A few months ago I spent the money to get the Antigravity lithium battery under the impression that constantly plugging the car in and the anxiety of a dead battery would be a thing of the past.

    Antigravity advertises that the battery puts itself to sleep and holds enough of a charge to start your car so that you are never left stranded.

    Since then I have not plugged the car in, but I did still drive the car once a week so the car never had issues starting.

    Until now.

    I went on vacation for about 2 weeks, left the car unplugged as usual and when I went to start it, it was dead. No big deal I thought. I hit the jump start button on the Antigravity battery remote which gave it enough juice to give the car electricity. It however did not give it enough juice to start the car. I checked the app to see how many volts it was getting and it had 11.48v which MIGHT be enough to start other cars, but not enough to bring back a 458 from the dead with all of its electronics.

    So now my car is dead, I have to order a CTEK lithium specific charger and plug the car back in. Full circle.

    Knowing what I do now, and still needing to plug the car in, I would not have bought this battery.

    Not only is it more expensive than the regular battery, I still have to plug it in and I had to spend more to get a new lithium specific CTEK. Very disappointing.

    If you’re reading this antigravity, what are your thoughts?


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  2. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    My advice would be to upgrade to the Braille i48CS.

    In my experience using the i48CS on my 458 Italia, the car could go usually around 2-3 weeks without needing any tending and still would crank over just like it had a brand new battery in it.

    The nice thing about the Braille is that, if it ever does drop below the threshold where it will correctly fire up the car, it's relatively easy to use Braille's pulse charger (the 1236L as I recall) to revive the cells. You just clip it on the battery (with the battery's negative terminal disconnected from the car itself) and in about 30 minutes the charger pulses the battery and then flips over into its normal charging mode; 45 minutes and you're back in business.

    I've personally never used the Antigravity, so I can't really comment on their product. However, in general - and as I have said before - typically you get what you pay for.

    Ray
     
  3. Mrpseudonym

    Mrpseudonym Formula Junior
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    Nov 7, 2020
    584
    Sydney, Australia
    That is very disappointing. The jump start aspect of this battery is arguably the main key feature. I was contemplating getting one for this reason but will hold off until this thread runs its course and we get more information.
     
  4. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    May 21, 2006
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    From the research I have done, when shopping for a higher quality Lithium based battery for the 458, I think it basically comes down to one of two camps:

    1. A lithium battery which needs at BMS in order to protect its cells from over discharge
    2. A lithium battery which has no BMS, but rather cells which are robust enough to endure the occasional over discharge and thus can safely be recovered.

    In speaking with Braille over the years, my impression has always been that they felt pretty secure about being in camp #2.

    Their batteries use a simple, straightforward, robust design and are the choice of many top teams in Motorsports. When I sold my 488, I sold my i48CS and as far as I know - some 4 years later - it's still out there going strong.

    Ray
     
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  5. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
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    I'd urge you to contact AntiGravity. Zero issues here after being dormant for over a month. Sounds like there's an issue with the restart system, so I'd think they would exchange under warranty.

    Contact AG, they are usually good people.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  6. SVCalifornia

    SVCalifornia F1 Rookie
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    Mar 28, 2011
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    Have to agree with ICP. Check with AG.

    my own experience has been now full year of charger only once and other than an my own installation error, it has been flawless since. Even the installation issue was resolved by using the recovery button. Then I plugged in the charger and fully recharged the battery. But not since.

    Two questions tho. Which battery model did you buy? And how much do you drive it every week?

    SV
     
  7. v35

    v35 Karting

    May 15, 2013
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    1. I bought the 60aH which I believe is the highest one they have.

    2. Each week I’ll do a minimum 10-mile drive. The last drive before I parked it was 65 miles.
     
  8. v35

    v35 Karting

    May 15, 2013
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    To those who have the battery:

    I think some helpful data to gather in the future is that when the battery does get to the point of needing to use the Re-start feature, to take note of the voltage the battery is at when you start the engine.

    If you’re having no issues with the car starting at 11.48V maybe it’s an issue with my car.

    On the flip side, if your batteries don’t get down to 11.48V then there’s an issue with my battery not storing enough juice.
     
  9. vraa

    vraa F1 Rookie
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    I think if you push the restart button a few times (waiting a few minutes in between pushes) it gets the voltage higher and higher
     
  10. v35

    v35 Karting

    May 15, 2013
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    Aaron

    I tried doing that in desperation and just saw the volts keep dropping everytime the dashboard screens would turn on :(
     
  11. v35

    v35 Karting

    May 15, 2013
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    Interestingly, on normal guy supercar’s video he lets the battery go and when he uses the re-start function his battery only got down to 11.98V which I’m confident would have started my car.
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  12. v35

    v35 Karting

    May 15, 2013
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    Thank you I will contact AG with my findings
     
  13. john Owen

    john Owen Formula Junior

    Dec 27, 2018
    460
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    I had an Antigravity on my old 458 and was faultless and had to use the restart function a couple of times after being laid up for a few weeks at a time. I've subsequently sold the 458 for a 488 but i found no issues with the 488 as the magnetic charging point was so easy to use. Instead i put the AG 40Ah battery to my 2019 Porsche RS WP and has worked just as faultlessly. I laid my RS up over last winter for a couple of months due to Covid with no trickle charger and had to use the restart function when i got round to driving it. Again worked fine so i suspect your problem is unique.
    As Il Co-Pilota advised get in touch with Anti-gravity direct as they seem to have a great reputation.
     
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  14. vraa

    vraa F1 Rookie
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    Also don't forget to charge/check ANY battery you buy. Antigravity or Varta or Interstate. I always test before install. Trust but verify!

    And I always keep two or three NOCO and CTEKs around the house and apartment, cheap insurance
     
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  15. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
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    I don't remember what it sits at when it was in hibernation. But 11.8 is very low for a lithium. Contact AG.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  16. Troy Slinkard

    Troy Slinkard Rookie

    Dec 26, 2018
    17
    Evergreen, Colorado
    I took Ray's advice when I bought my 458 spider in 2019. Had a Braille i48cs installed. I have never used a charger.

    During a stretch of bad weather last winter, the car sat untouched for six weeks. It was 13.29 volts at the terminals the day the snow started. Three weeks later it was at 13.22 and three weeks after that it was at 13.15 volts. It started enthusiastically.
     
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  17. v35

    v35 Karting

    May 15, 2013
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    Update: The president of AG has reached out to me. My lithium charger arrived overnight from Amazon. I will be doing some testing tonight and will update this thread with some data and AG’s explanation of why the battery couldn’t start the car.
     
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  18. vraa

    vraa F1 Rookie
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    Is the screen shot you shared earlier from within the battery, or from the bluetooth adapter they sell separately which attaches to the exterior of the battery?
     
  19. v35

    v35 Karting

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    It’s from the optional battery tracker you attach to the battery that syncs with the app when you’re in Bluetooth range.
     
  20. v35

    v35 Karting

    May 15, 2013
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    For those who don’t want to read the summary verbatim, here is the short of it:

    - If the car sits for 1-2 weeks, the car either needs to go on a long enough drive to charge the battery up OR it needs to be plugged in to battle the known Ferrari parasitic draw.

    -If your drive is short AND you don’t plug it in, the battery can still draw energy from the emergency reserve.

    -In my specific circumstance it appears that the combination of leaving the car unplugged and my short weekly coffee shop drives are constantly discharging the battery.

    -I am surprised that the 65-mile drive just prior to parking it was not enough to charge the battery.


    Here is a summary of what the President of AG told me, who by the way has been nothing short of great attending to this matter.

    “Here are some things you should be aware of with the Battery.”

    “Though our Battery does have the built-in Wireless Jump Starting that will in fact work, it still needs to be kept in a decent state of charge in a normal manner for it to function properly. For example Ferraris have known issues with draining the batteries that are in them relatively quickly. So our battery can be drained as any other battery can... but our battery, in the circumstance of an emergency, will actually start the car again and let you drive it away.

    But, as I mentioned, a battery only has a finite amount of energy before it is drained completely, So I will try to explain what is probably happening. Ferraris are known to have a very high drain on batteries, so what appears to be happening is the battery is not getting back to a fully charged state and is in a constant state of over discharge. Let me explain it this way..... If you start with a full battery and you don't drive for a week or two, then the battery is drained a little bit... but then you go on a drive.... but one drive depending on how long will not fully recharge the battery to completely full. So then if you then don't drive for another few weeks and then drive one day again, the battery is still draining a lot more than it is being recharged and replenished with energy. So the net effect is that it is not getting a full rechaarge to recover and is always operating in a very low state of charge which it never recoups from. So it is basically just above dead all the time. This will eventually take the reserve capacity of the battery also. So in the end it at such a low state of charge that it cannot operate as designed.

    So I promise you the battery will work as designed, but it does have to be maintained to prevent that long term low-state of charge where it is operating at its lowest voltage continually. Meaning it does need to be put on a charger more often than you have been or driven more so that the battery can get a full energy recoup from time to time. So from reading what you wrote it appears we are getting a net effect of severe over discharge is my assumption.”
     
  21. DoubleD33

    DoubleD33 F1 Rookie
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    I have the AG 60 Ah battery in my 458. I have let it sit for 7 weeks off the charger and it has fired up without the restart being used.

    I don’t know how quickly the charging system charges but when I drive it I will be in it for hours.

    I have to admit I am still confused about my cars charging system being designed for a lead acid battery charging the Li with no issues while running and the inability of a normal battery charger being able to charge a Li battery.
     
  22. dustman

    dustman F1 World Champ
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    Jun 12, 2007
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    Good service!
    When I tried to purchase from AG last year they were a mess, zero customer service or follow thru. Perhaps pandemic issues but turned me off quickly.
     
  23. v35

    v35 Karting

    May 15, 2013
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    Aaron
    I’ve got an update.

    I let the car charge overnight and this morning the Voltage was at 13.25V at 93% SOC. I turned the lights on, let the battery die. I hit the Re-Start button and the battery read at 11.78V. I tried starting the car and it wasn’t able to turn it over at 11.78. I attached photos of the readings.


    At this point I think I may just have a faulty battery as it seems others have had no issues.


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  24. Shermanator

    Shermanator Karting

    Aug 31, 2018
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    I am not a expert, but I think that the difference between the CTEK chargers is mainly in the final maintenance phase. The CTEK chargers are made to be connected indefinitely and it is this extended time where the Li battery likes something different than the lead acid battery. You do not run your engine for weeks/months/years continuously, but the CTEK is connected continuously.
     
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  25. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    I'm not sure what Antigravity uses for their "re-start when the battery is dead" stuff, but my guess would be that it's some sort of electrolytic capacitor(s) in there. Perhaps the capacitor has died and/or whatever circuitry they are using is allowing the capacitor to drain out along with the battery. Just an off-handed guess, but from an electrical engineering standpoint, there aren't too many other ways to skin a cat here (insofar as to restarting the car when the battery is flat).

    Why not charge the battery up and just start the car? Or were you testing to confirm that the re-start stuff was still operational?

    Ray
     
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