Another oil related thread.........

Oil thread.
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picture needs to go on the permanent save list - never delete. jon s

 

Actually Mobil 1 15w50 somewhat recently altered their formula and it has plenty of ZDDP for our engines now. Run it with confidence.

 

The 0w-50 has a bit more ZDDP, but for our use, the 15w50 is also adequate. Mobil 1 really added a good bit more ZDDP to that stuff so I personally do not believe the specific 'racing' 0w-50 to be needed any longer. Not unless you're running really stiff valve springs with high lift cams anyway.


For what it's worth, I am running higher pressure valve springs due to the high lift high duration cams and my engine sees 8k rpm frequently. I pulled the cams for the 1-4 bank recently and they look perfect. I've been using Mobil 1 15w/50 for about a year now, when previously I was using Brad Penn 20w/50 which has a bit more ZDDP.

 

To be fair - Now you've clarified your question to add the "racing oil in race cars" part - in your first post, no mention of race cars was made, only 308s... which most people aren't racing.

Check out Castrol Syntec/Edge 5W50, has higher zinc content for older cars as well.

 

Redline has some good racing oil, you should check out their web site.

 

I highly recommend low viscosity synthetics for those whose garage floors are too clean.

Happy new year all.

 

" i ordered few cases of Helix from England. Ferrari recommended"

Ferrari recommends Helix because Ferrari has a relationship with Shell, not with Exxon/Mobil.

If they had an advertising/sponsoring relationship with Costco, they would be recommending Kirkland Oil.

 

I use the 10W60 Shell Helix Racing in my 208. I am very satisfied with it. I do not. race my car but using thuis oil reduced the oil consumpsion significantly. Remember the 208 revs even more than a 308.

 

The Shell UK website lub selector used to recommend Helix Ultra 5W 40, as did Ferrari North America.
Now Shell say refer to technical team.
I'm not sure why they changed their recommendation?

 

Another option is to add extra ZDDP to your oil to whatever level you want. Red Line "Engine Oil Break-In Additive" or similar:

Red Line Synthetic Oil - Motor Oil for Racing - Engine Oil Break-In Additive

 

I've become quite interested in this subject since I noticed Shell revised their recommendations.
It appears to be due to the ZDDP content and API SN oil. They cant really explain why they've only recently changed their view although the oil in question has had an SN rating for quite a while. Upshot is SN oil can not contain more than 800 ppm of ZDDP and this may not be ideal for older drive trains.
I also found this quote from another source:
A perfect example of proper balance can be seen is an API SN motor oil. While this spec oil is limited to 800 ppm of a catalytic converter friendly ZDDP, an API SN oil can break in a flat tappet camshaft. The flat tappet cam in question has less than .400 valve lift and no more than 215 psi valve spring pressure. So an API SN oil will protect a flat tappet cam, but you won’t see success trying to break in a Big Block Chevy cam with over .500 valve lift and over 300 psi valve spring pressure with an API SN oil. It is the different demands of the valve train loads that dictate what balance is required to protect.

Can anyone help in confirming whether this quote is accurate or not and whether a stock 328 lump falls into the category that would be protected by this level of ZDDP?

 

These are not flat tappet motors; they are overhead cam motors. There is very little load on the cam/lifters compared to a flat tappet engine. It's not an issue though the ZDDP sellers do their best to make it one.

However, if you are concerned, Mobil 1 0W-40 is a reasonable choice with 1100ppm.

Re ADDING ZDDP - unless you are working toward you cub scout jr oil chemist badge, leave the contents of motor oil to the people who actually know what they are doing. Adding additive to oil changes the rest of the additive package and how they react in the system. You also have no idea whether the gunk you dumped into the oil actually mixed properly or not.

If you feel you must have a lot of ZDDP, buy oil with the ZDDP already in it.

 

+1

I just spoke with Dimi Elgin the other day about this when he was measuring a set of cams I sent to him. Dimi is undoubtedly the most competent camshaft non-metriculated statis engineer I've ever known, he has literally written books and taught classs to other oil and mechanical engineers. He stated through his conversations with oil engineers that there are over 50 different types of ZDDP out there, and for our type of engines we need not be overly concerned other than to make sure we use something with at least 1000 or so with at least a 40w rating and a HTHS rating over 4.0 (Mobil 1, Brad Penn, Gibbs, all fine). Our engines do not overly put oil through terrible amounts of pressure unless constantly beaten on, in which case a 50w would be better.

Flat tappet American racing pushrod motors handling springs with seated pressures of upwards of 400lbs and 1000lbs at the nose are the engines with real ZDDP needs.

 

Thanks for the advice.
There seems to be two types of Mobil 1 0w 40 available. - ESP and New life.
Do both these fit the bill for a 328?
It doesn't seem easy getting this sort of detail from the average retailer and I'm certainly happy to go with an oil off this information rather than the flaky answers Shell gave. I suspect the ZDDP quantity of Ultra 5w 40 has dropped well below 1000 ppm, hence the hesitation.

 

The only Mobil 1 OW-40 I have ever seen/used is this one:
0W-40 Synthetic Oil | Mobil 1™ 0W-40

I just checked their web site and that's the only 0W40 I'm seeing but perhaps I'm missing something…

 

On a side note I recently changed from Mobil 1 0W-40 to 15W-50 and saw my oil consumption cut in half. Not leaking out but burn.

 

That sounds about right. I'd run a 50w anyway as the valve guide clearance on these things was never all that tight making a bit of oil burning inevitable. Heck, I'm noticing now even with brand new valve guides and valves that it's really difficult to hit that low .002 clearance mark as the guides just aren't drilled to overly accurate tolerances to begin with. I'm lucky to hit .0022, most come out to .0025ish (best is just between .0015-.002)

 

Yep, I've run both weights as well with the 15W-50 giving me a higher and longer oil pressure reading at start up. Have run the Mobil1 15W-50 for about a year now. I'll be going back to the 0W-40 on the next oil change. Just Sayin!

Ciao,
George

 

That explains a lot, my engine only has only ~ 13,000 miles, runs great but drinks oil like an Italian drinks Campari and soda.