Another eBay find: '81 400i BIN $19,500 | FerrariChat

Another eBay find: '81 400i BIN $19,500

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by Pedro, Dec 9, 2008.

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  1. Pedro

    Pedro Karting

    Nov 17, 2008
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    #1 Pedro, Dec 9, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I'm not crazy about what looks like rattle-can black on the tail's fascia and it looks like a family of badgers were hauled around in the back seat, but at $19,500 can it be that bad? (maybe I don't want to know the answer to that)

    item: 150315084096
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  2. aidanparte

    aidanparte Formula 3

    Jul 18, 2004
    1,222
    Looks like a pretty decent car in a good color. The black rear panel is standard on the 400 series up to the 400i series 2. The back seats don't look too bad, nothing that Leatherique wouldn't fix.
     
  3. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 23, 2007
    8,451
    North Pole AK
    Every time I see one of these cars in silver I like it more and more.
     
  4. birddog

    birddog Formula Junior

    Jun 24, 2006
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    Ed
    Beautiful vintage GT car, but seriously - an asphalt plant in the background? And you know a new exhaust alone on one of these will run you about $9,000 right? The service manager at my local dealer had one of these and he wouldn't sell it to anyone except for parts because he knew they'd be pissed at him at the cost to bring it back up to concours - or even just really reliable and presentable condition. These are beautiful cars, but I would NEVER try to bargain basement one of them. Find the absolutely best one your can - absolute concours winning condition - if you want to keep it for a while.

    As for the "leatherique will bring it back" - all I can say is "your results may vary". After winning a concours with my car this Summer I applied leatherique in an effort to soften up and slightly renew the leather in preparation for the 2009 FCA meet. Now I've got a totally stripped looking interior and I've got to re-dye. I had zero cracks or problems - just hard leather from age. I'm sure leatherique has its applications, but don't look at a cracked old interior and think it'll take care of it.
     
  5. brettski

    brettski Formula 3

    Feb 29, 2004
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    oh man, that is music to my ears.

    i think this car 'looks' outstanding at that price. i'd be down there in a flash for an inspection/test drive if not for the '78 400a.

    the OEM exhaust is expensive but i don't think it's $9K, is it ? it might be with headers...ouch.
    however, there are great alternatives for a fraction of that. Eurospares has Ansa 412 silencers that will bolt straight for approx $600 USD for the pair or there are some really nice looking stainless replacement parts on Ebay UK. much, much less...but shipping will hurt.
     
  6. SonomaRik

    SonomaRik F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 15, 2006
    6,880
    Sonoma, CA
    where's choptop


    that looks to be an interesting find.... can the times be this tough or owners that desperate...

    parting that car would make the $20k for sure.
     
  7. birddog

    birddog Formula Junior

    Jun 24, 2006
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    Ed
    You're the expert on these cars...I just wanted to point out that although this is a very nice looking car - the parts for these 400 series cars can be astronomical (or even unattainable) even by Ferrari standards. I'm forking out 400+ per metric tire on my car, where these are easily 500+ per tire. The list goes on and on. It looks like a nice example at that price - but only for someone that knows what they are getting into.
     
  8. brettski

    brettski Formula 3

    Feb 29, 2004
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    brett swaykoski
    expert ? no, no my man...not by a longshot but, yes, i knew where you were going with that...and you are absolutely right on all counts.
     
  9. ClassicFerrari

    ClassicFerrari F1 World Champ
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    Jan 7, 2004
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    $20G's is a good buy.

    I don't see anywhere in the ad it stating that it needs an exhaust. If it does, buy the ANSA aftermarket kit as Brettster said. Give the car a once over, change the fluids and drive it! At that price what can you expect?! :D
     
  10. Choptop

    Choptop F1 Rookie

    Aug 15, 2004
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    Alan Galbraith
    #10 Choptop, Dec 13, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2008
    lurking behind the bushes. :D

    Very interesting indeed.

    hmmm.....

    very tempting. I may hang tough for a while longer though. I may have to wait until I see how my biz does over the summer 2009 before I make the jump. One of my shows is in Detroit... we'll see how it plays out. If that show does well it will be time to celebrate with a Ferrari :D

    plus I think I'd rather have a pre-CA smog, pre-1976 car.... also I think I'd prefer the engine gone through... we'll see.
     
  11. Neonzapper

    Neonzapper F1 Rookie

    Oct 19, 2008
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    Mykol
  12. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
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    Car has been on cars.com at 21.5k for a little while.

    Wish it was a 5 speed.
     
  13. brettski

    brettski Formula 3

    Feb 29, 2004
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    brett swaykoski
    Vasco dude, long time, no talk. all the best my man. your positive energy is a constant source of motivation for me.

    i need to direct everyone to Vasco's profile pic. what a cool shot. i wish i was there to see that.
     
  14. ClassicFerrari

    ClassicFerrari F1 World Champ
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    #14 ClassicFerrari, Dec 14, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    LOL, me? Motivating you? I don't think so my friend...these awesome pics of these great projects by you and the others is what keeps me here :) As for the profile pic, yes it's amazing. Those were great times I bet. I grabbed this pic from our friends in the GTO section.

    Here is the pic Brett's talkin about. Load em' up!!!! Sorry for the off topic boys.
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  15. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

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    Makes you question all of the ads for cars, never seen rain, never seen snow, etc...
     
  16. ClassicFerrari

    ClassicFerrari F1 World Champ
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    Bah!

    This just proves they don't melt! ;):)
     
  17. FerrariKingV12

    FerrariKingV12 Karting

    Nov 21, 2008
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    Laguna Beach CA
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    JR
    I just bought a 1980 400i and paid over market for it ($36,000) because I thought it was super clean and had nearly $20,000 in receipts done on the car. After 500 miles it started to smoke and I took it to the mechanic who told me the good news that it was an inexpensive guide valve gasket but the bad news was they had to take the engine apart to get there. I had both heads done to make sure it would not happen again and also had a valve adjustment at the bargain of $8,500. I drove the car for about another 200 miles and then the alternator went out. It was rebuilt and fixed at a cost of $350. Then the thermostat went bad and we had it replaced for $280.

    Don't get me wrong I love this car and am hoping it is ready to go but beware of the "money pit". I also have a couple of newer Ferrari's and knock on wood they run like champs. The only bad time is whhen it is time for their annual maintenance. The 400 is a classic and I feel like a true enthusiast when I drive it. There is no pretentiousness and I think the looks are awesome.

    Your car at $19,500 seems like a bargain but talk to your Ferrari Mechanic about the worst case scenario. I can send you a detailed list of what I replaced so you could get a bid.

    JR
     
  18. jsa330

    jsa330 F1 Veteran
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    Yep, it can be that bad, and worse.
     
  19. aidanparte

    aidanparte Formula 3

    Jul 18, 2004
    1,222
    Welcome to 400 ownership! Sounds like you've had some bad luck, but with regular use the car should be very reliable. Do you have any photos or other details you'd like to share?

    Aidan
     
  20. brettski

    brettski Formula 3

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    #20 brettski, Dec 23, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2008
    JR,
    while i personally don't think $36K is overpaying for a V-12 Ferrari, i'm part of a small group who really loves the model. i'm sure there are those who would think that you did, particularly if you needed cylinder head work...but obviously you didn't know that in advance. you've offered to "send a list" of what you had done and i'd love to see that and also know a bit more about the $20K in prevoius work that you mentioned, if you'd be willing to share it. now i'm sure your mechanic is topnotch and the reason i ask is certainly not to suggest you've paid too much, but rather to find out what you got for that $8500, because i'm a little confused about what you mean when you say " ...guide valve gasket...". i know what i think you mean but i'd like to verify it. i think you probably had your heads redone, which included valve guides and new head gaskets upon reinstallation...
    but i'd like to know if, besides guides and seals, you had seats and valves (etc.) replaced , as $8500 is a pretty big bill. what all was done ?

    for example, we tore down an '80 400i yesterday to adjust the valve clearences, but we also removed both alternators, the power steering pump and the radiator for other reasons... so we are in a position to pull the heads if we choose. it took Mike and I a little under three hours...
    that's less than $225 in labour at my shop.

    i guess my point is that any particular Ferrari experience can be made much better with a good shop 'in your corner', that has fair pricing.
    i'm really blown away by some of the repair bills i hear of, but still, $19.5 is still super cheap (unless it is riddled with rust) even if it needs $10-12K.
    does anybody really think they are getting an 'outstanding' V-12 Ferrari for under $20K ?...i doubt it. i mean afterall, how could that be ?
    parts are parts and labour is labour...neither of those things change whether it is a BB512i or a 400i.

    i'm really glad to hear that you love the model... and it is especially nice to hear fron someone who has much newer (and likely much more expensive ) Ferrari's to compare it to. it's my opinion that anybody who sampled a good one would love it as well..."unpretentious", i like that.

    i hope it is solid for you now that you've addressed the issues. i bet it will be.
     
  21. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
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    I question the $8.5K too. At least you're getting the ancillaries sorted one by one, it's rock solid otherwise.
     
  22. brettski

    brettski Formula 3

    Feb 29, 2004
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    brett swaykoski
    i told a bit of a lie in my previous post...we had yet to remove the balancer pulley, the front cover or the headers...so not ready to pull heads.
    but we had done much more work than necessary to simply adjust the valve clearance.

    again, i'm not questioning JR's bill (it would be easy to end up with $8500 bill on one of these cars), i'm just curious as to what was done.
    if he got the 'full jam' on the heads than it is self-explanatory...with the obligatory 'while you're there's'.

    my real point was that, at $19.5, you surely have some considerable deferred maintenance ahead of you...and it could still be a FANTASTIC deal.
    buy it, do the service and drive off into the sunset. again, rust aside, what more could you possibly want for $20K ?
    if that makes you nervous...well, by all means, do not even consider it.

    i appreciate the point that both Birddog and JR are making, which i believe is Caveat Emptor...but a V-12 Ferrari for under $20K...how could there not be work ? i may sound like a broken record...but it was the most expensive car money could buy in 1981. a less expensive BB512i sells for north of $150K now and even an unfancied 2 valve 308/Mondial in similar condition (whatever that happens to be) will sell for more...which is a joke, IMO.
     
  23. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

    Feb 16, 2003
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    At risk of butting in, as quoted by somebody else, "The most expensive Ferrari to buy is a cheap one"
     
  24. brettski

    brettski Formula 3

    Feb 29, 2004
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    brett swaykoski
    well, yes and no...i think there are two sides to that coin.
    do you pay top dollar and put your faith in some pieces of paper from another State or Country while you drive around on eggshells ?
    or
    do you negotiate a good deal and then address the the most important required services so that you KNOW they've been done ?

    certainly there are examples where you are able to verify that a car has been serviced at a qualified shop and, sure, you can put your faith in that.
    ...but we've seen too many examples where a car has a 'invoice' for a recent 'major' from a 'known' shop and yet EVERY valve is out of spec...

    in a perfect world, every Ferrari is rust free and service current...but how many do you think really are ? how do you really know ? sure, a PPI can go along way, but there are enough guys that will confirm that a compression test doesn't really tell you that much. leakdown ? sure, but...

    all i'm saying is, sometimes you really can verify a service history, but is there anything that beats seeing it done with your own eyes ?

    i just think that, especially in in 'buyers market', more people should negotiate the 'major' into the price, do it and then you know for sure.

    in the current case, look at the body, suspension, interior, glass and all the while just assume you need a major. for $20K, why asume otherwise ?
    it is an Ebay Ferrari, afterall...but i think that being 'into' a Series 1 400i for $30-35K ($20K + 10-15K in fresh servicing) is a pretty good place to be.
     
  25. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

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    #25 Spasso, Dec 25, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2008
    Exactly, as long as you are going into this with your eyes wide open. I know rebuilding the rear suspension can be a deal breaker. If you find one for cheap that has sacked out suspension, brakes, clutch and drivetrain components, you can spend the value of the car putting it right. If you enjoy doing the work yourself and don't mind spending the money then great, you've got a deal. What is YOUR time worth?

    Buying a high mileage clapped out 308 and fixing everything on it would cost you the same as going out and buying a well maintained Testarossa at this point.

    I have found through experience that it is more cost effective to find the one that has already been rebuilt and just paying the extra in purchase price. I am on my 38th car so far, believe me, I learned that lesson that hard way.

    Case in point was my TR.
    I had a set budget but found one for 10k higher. After checking the car and the receipts of recent work I realized I couldn't beat or match the total asking price by going out and buying a cheaper car and doing the upgrades and maintenance myself.
     

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