Annual upkeep cost? | FerrariChat

Annual upkeep cost?

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by ghybrid, Mar 17, 2007.

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  1. ghybrid

    ghybrid Rookie

    Feb 11, 2007
    7
    I have been longing for a 365GT/4 2+2, 400GT and 412M since the first time I saw one. Then I was blessed with driving 1983 5/spd 400i back in 1998. Oh that sonorous whailing twelve serving a dose of alacrity hardly available in another understated 4-seater known to mankind. It's distinquishing, gentleman-like lines and shapes emote a sense of acquired style that just matures with grace in time. It's handsome, strong, confident, pure, simple and gracefull design has still kept me captivated for the last 25 years or so. I can now budget about $40k for a 5-spd version, hopefully Black/Black. I wanted your experienced opinion as to what my annual upkeep would be if I found a #2 car of course fully inspected prior to purchase? I plan to purchase in June 2007. Your advise is much appreciated and this is a great informative Ferrari afficianado site. You guys have helped me speed up my acquisition process, Thanks again

    Gregory
     
  2. ZINGARA 250GTL

    ZINGARA 250GTL F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 21, 2002
    17,499
    PA
    Full Name:
    Ken
    Here we go. You will incur some restoration costs up front. God knows what that might be. Very least is total fluid change, brake bleeding, some rubber components, etc. After that? I spent a minimum of $1,000 per year on my Lusso (after restoration) for usual maintenance things as well as replacement of parts just aging. My 360 and, now, my 575M require $3-500.00 per year just for the usual maintenance sans tires.

    Allow for the unexpected also. I put a large nail through the RR tire on the 575. No repair for high speed tires. Boom, $1,000 for two rear tires.

    But, then a normal everyday car will cost you $2-400.00 per year anyway.
     
  3. aidanparte

    aidanparte Formula 3

    Jul 18, 2004
    1,222
    Gregory

    I know how you feel about the 400, having wanted one for about 25 years - I bought mine last year (1980 black/black 400i A). It is a wonderful car.

    I would budget a couple of grand a year - some years will be more, some less. With your purchase budget, you should be able to get a really nice one.

    Good luck

    Aidan
     
  4. ghybrid

    ghybrid Rookie

    Feb 11, 2007
    7
    Thank you all for your advice. I read in Forza that the annual is usually about $3-$4.5k a year. But that seemed kind of extravagent. Aiden, what do you like most about your 400ia? Was it what you expected? I really happy for you that you acquired one after longing for it for some time.

    Thanks again
    Gregory
     
  5. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 23, 2006
    11,770
    GMT -5 & GMT +1
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Had one....sold it.
    Just couldn't get it out of my system.
    Liked the 400i enough I bought another one.
     
  6. aidanparte

    aidanparte Formula 3

    Jul 18, 2004
    1,222
    Gregory

    There is so much to like about the car - I love the design overall, it is so elegant and timeless; and many details, such as the C-pillar; the rear view when I open the garage. It is extremely comfortable for long journeys, holds plenty of luggage, you can take friendS along for a ride, it sounds great especially when the revs pick up. It is way better than I expected, and I exepcted a lot! Just about the only thing I don't like is the fuel consumption.

    Aidan
     
  7. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 23, 2006
    11,770
    GMT -5 & GMT +1
    Full Name:
    Dave
    The only thing that gets worse mileage than a 400i is my F250 4 door pickup with the V-10 gas motor in it.
    You remember the size of that beast Aidan?
     
  8. aidanparte

    aidanparte Formula 3

    Jul 18, 2004
    1,222
    I sure do, Dave.

    Aidan
     
  9. Horsefly

    Horsefly F1 Veteran

    May 14, 2002
    6,929
    #9 Horsefly, Mar 19, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  10. billg

    billg Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2006
    307
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    Bill Grady
    Forza's about right.
     
  11. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 11, 2003
    8,890
    Central NJ
    Arlie,

    My version is a tach where there are $ signs of increasing size instead of numbers.

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  12. billg

    billg Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2006
    307
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    Bill Grady
    The sad part is, 'Wrecker Service' is in about the right spot on the cashometer.
     
  13. jjmcd

    jjmcd Formula Junior

    Dec 3, 2004
    490
    The truth is that "average" per year maintenance amounts for these types of cars are almost completely worthless, as they're old enough and most have enough miles to have a steady series of ancillary parts be worn out or otherwise fail and, depending on how the prior owners treated the car, the car may need some major work at some point even though though it runs and drives great now and passes a pre-purchase inspection with flying colors. Also keep in mind that, because they're relatively cheap, there are a disproportionate number of 400i's out there that have been owned by people who couldn't afford to properly maintain them and, as a result, have lots of deferred maintenance which is not visible (they're called "shiny wrecks").

    This means that it's pretty much the luck of the draw whether, during any given year, something will fail, which may be relatively cheap (i.e., under $1,000) or relatively expensive (i.e., $1-10,000). In my experience, the only way to get ahead of the curve on older exotic car upkeep is to, as soon as you buy the car and periodically thereafter, bite the bullet and have an experienced mechanic who you trust and knows and understands the specific type of car (NOT the dealership) go through the entire car, give it a complete service, proactively fix/replace all of the things that usually fail on that particular type of car (for the 400 Ferraris, for example, the rear air suspension is a notorious weak point), and also fix/replace everything that is worn-out or otherwise broken. Even if you're mechanically handy, I'm not sure that you could do this yourself because, as stated above, the mechanic needs to really know and understand the specific type of car and all of its weak points. Be forewarned, this will NOT be cheap. However, it will save you the time and aggravation of having a steady stream of stuff fail over time, possibly leaving you stranded. For my older Porsche 911, this costs from $3-5k every couple of years, but the result is that it only needs oil changes in between and has been extremely dependable.

    However, even if you do all of the above, you still need to be able to drop several (and possibly many) thousand dollars on the car for something completely unexpected. That's the downside of all of that depreciation that enables you to buy an $80k+ original purchase price car for $30k -- the maintenance costs, which are proportional to the original purchase price, not the current purchase price. As for servicing costs, keep in mind that the Ferrari mechanic working on your $30k 400i will very likely also be able to work on someone else's $50-70k Testarossa, $80-90k 355 or $120-140k 360, so his labor won't be cheap.

    Good luck!
     
  14. Davidindallas

    Davidindallas Formula Junior

    Nov 5, 2003
    344
    I think the advice from the last post is spot on and would apply to any used car, but particularly an exotic. Do a PPI before you buy to identify the most likely and obvious issues--body sound, engine firing on all cylinders and not in need of immediate major work (i.e., making compression and oil pressure), gearbox functioning. Then, buy it and take it mechanic for work. Expect things to fail--like battery and other smaller items and by all means keep driving. If you do that the car should hold up over the long haul with routine maintenance being your only regular expense apart from smaller surprises.
     
  15. billg

    billg Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2006
    307
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    Bill Grady
    Components in these cars just break a lot. They'd break in any car of this age, and I believe these cars are overbuilt and really sturdy, but the cost of the repair plus the challenge of finding the parts heightens the impact of the malfunctions in old Ferraris. Few are going to buy one, take it to a mechanic, and tear out something that's not broken but is likely to break in the next year, say. Owning these things is really great and having them in the shop just has to be part of the experience. If you really chafe at having it laid up, let Ferrari alone. There are many good cars less problematic. For me,there's nothing as special as this marque, so I swing with the issues.
     
  16. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

    Oct 19, 2001
    16,078
    Arlington Heights IL
    Full Name:
    Kenneth
    I've found this to be true too. When you buy a vintage car, you will immediately want to throw some money at it as there will be obvious areas that need it. That's round one. You now have a driver.

    Then comes the second round: as you drive it new things pop up every week/month for a year. You need to stay ahead of the curve, which means when you hear the funny noise fix it RIGHT AWAY, or you will be stranded or worse. I had my brakes, waterpump and exhaust all need replacing in a 4 month period and I was very depressed about the car at that point.

    But, if you stick with it, you do get to the point where you're out of the woods and the thing actually works! Then comes the most fun part: round three.

    That's when you work on the cosmetics. Paint if desired, little trim parts you didn't want to overpay for when the mechanicals were more needy, new carpeting perhaps. At this point a vintage car is a complete joy to own. For a vintage Ferrari, it's big bucks to get to this stage. Even for my Lotus I spent more than I paid for the car to get there. If you love the car and have the resources and patience however, it's well worth it!

    Good luck.

    Ken
     
  17. Fritz Ficke

    Fritz Ficke Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 3, 2006
    2,168
    Tucson, AZ.
    Full Name:
    Fritz Ficke
    I would like to give an example to illistrate the excellant points made earlier in this thread. I have only had my 400I for a few months now, so I am going to use one of my other collecter cars. A Porsche I brought three years ago from a friend who's father has had it since Sept. of 1970, he kept. excellant records and spared no expense on maintence. When I drove the car on extended road trips issues arose that did not appear before. The engine required a refresh and up date to the tune of $10,000. The trans syncros were to worn to live with on a daily basis $4,000, First year. Second year I really wanted it to drive "tighter", Every forty year old rubber bushing and pivot point in the suspension had to be replaced $6,000. Of course during these years there is the clock repair $250 and other misc. items that need addressing. By the third year I have only changed the oil for a cost of $80.
    This was a car I knew and I really belived it was "done" when purchesd
    First year $16,000
    Second year $8,500
    Third year $80
    Which year should I give for yearly expenses for ownership??
    The Porsche has half the cylinders of the Ferrari, and is not as exotic. If you do not plan on driven the car much or do not expect it to drive like new, then these cost can be a lower.
    PS, I did my own work, these price's reflect parts and machine work only.
     
  18. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,591
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
    Full Name:
    Ken Battle
    Ken
    Our histories are very parallel, based on your picture. I owned a Lotus Europa for 14 years and over 5+ years I got everything reliable and right and then mostly just drove it. About every 2 years a had a major task to take care of and then it was back on the road. I finally ran out of things to do so a bought an Elan +2 that was a basket case and I took 8 years to put her on the road. At that time I put the Europa up for sale and I am now helping its current owner keep her on the road. There are not many Europa with 80K miles on them! The +2 with its Cosworth BDR is my reliable adrenalin rush.

    So I bought my 400i as my long weekend cruiser. I am following the same procedures of working out all identifiable issues. So far I have been able to do all of the work myself, but most issues have been cosmetic. I am starting to add some miles to it and that keeps my "to do" list full. With 37,000 miles at purchase I hope to add 3-5000 miles per year but I would not be upset with a 6-month outage if a major issue arises. I will get help when I need it but I do not see a need to have an experienced mechanic go through the car looking for issues that are not there.

    The big difference between Lotus and Ferrari is the complexity and the price of the parts. A Lotus is a well designed toy compared to these Prancers.

    My opinion, I'll see how it goes.
    Ken
     
  19. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

    Oct 19, 2001
    16,078
    Arlington Heights IL
    Full Name:
    Kenneth
    I've had my car only since 2001. It's been pretty reliable the last 3-4 years. I agree it's a very simple car compared to a Ferrari which was a lot of its appeal to me as I wanted to learn to do my own work. I sure wish I had a BDR in my car though; that thing must FLY!

    Ken
     

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