Amelia Island Auction thread | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Amelia Island Auction thread

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by Timmmmmmmmmmy, Feb 17, 2016.

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  1. ersatzS2

    ersatzS2 Formula Junior
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    #51 ersatzS2, Mar 13, 2016
    What I love about Seinfeld is that while he is culling his collection and selling some absolutely spectacular examples in his collection, he made the cover of SCM last month for 'overpaying' on a ratty but original Speedster where he paid a 'price insensitive' premium
     
  2. cheesey

    cheesey Formula 3

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    #52 cheesey, Mar 13, 2016
    is there a consensus of direction of prices paid with respect to the general market... buyer / seller sentiment, were the "no sales" influenced by car quality or lack desire to by the purchasers to reach for the higher prices
     
  3. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy F1 Rookie

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    #53 Timmmmmmmmmmy, Mar 13, 2016
    This particular 917/30 was not one of the original 3 raced by Penske/ Donohue in the famous racing colours but rather a spare chassis that was later built up with OEM parts to become a more modern but still official Porsche 917/30. This particular car was built/ restored by Dave Morse from authentic ex Porsche AG kit around an original Porsche chassis but has no racing history of any sort and spent the first 16 years of its life sitting in the Porsche showroom in Melbourne..... Another built up car was offered at RM Paris in 2014 without selling for around $3 million and yet another is in a private collection. A cool piece of kit but not nearly on the level of the ex. Donohue cars which would be worth many times what this is worth.

    As covered in Karl Ludvigsen's wonderful book "Excellence was expected" the post 906 so called plastic Porsche's were all about light weight and after failures in chassis and parts Porsche AG started to race chassis once only and either totally rebuilt them before another outing or stripped them and used the parts elsewhere. Only later, 90s onwards, when these cars became valuable did experts such as Dale Miller and Dave Morse start to rebuild these Plastic Porsche's from an accumulation of parts that are usually authentic but from either the works supply bins or from various other chassis, would never happen in the Ferrari world but there you go. Just look at 908-011 which was also offered at Gooding Amelia Island for a Dale Miller car.

    The market for the best is setting new records as commented by Fiskens who have sold much of their Retromobile contingent for record prices, the Bugatti at Bonhams, 400SA at RM and the California & 550 at Gooding, all great prices. Everything that has any negative is being discounted severely and some good buying is out there, possibly due to sellers wanting to make quick profits but also simple supply and demand. Witness the 540K, one of two at Amelia, no less than 5 at Bonhams in Stuttgart in a week, 1 at RM Monaco in a few weeks and several more for sale privately. If you want one, you pick the one YOU want and bid what you want, the rest get on the trade merry go round or return to the seller.

    Two factors affecting the market are the long lead-time to restorations, the leading Ferrari restorers have waiting lists of several years making buying a restored car much more attractive than non-restored AND the fact that the market for Ferrari and some others has been so insanely profitable to the extent that even with a large decline, 5 year ROI will still be very high.
     
  4. energy88

    energy88 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #54 energy88, Mar 13, 2016
    I believe the jury is still out on this auction. Have seen articles this weekend advocating both directions.
     
  5. nis1973

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    #55 nis1973, Mar 13, 2016
    So did the 908 not sell? Any info on what the high bid was?
     
  6. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy F1 Rookie

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    #56 Timmmmmmmmmmy, Mar 14, 2016
    Gooding does not list it as sold so NO. Wasn't watching nor was I there so cannot say. Marcel was and may know, if I find out I will post :)
     
  7. loflyer47

    loflyer47 Formula Junior

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    #57 loflyer47, Mar 14, 2016
    Does anyone have the result on the 1957 Ferrari Tour de France 0619GT at RMsothebys? Sale price, hammer or all in price ? High bid? What happened?
     
  8. Abi2612

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    #58 Abi2612, Mar 14, 2016
    4.250.000 $ high bid, DNS
     
  9. kevin956

    kevin956 Formula Junior

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    #59 kevin956, Mar 14, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2016
    Looks like Bonhams shows a sale at $2,970,000 on their website for the 540K.

    The 540K at RM Sothebys was a no sale at $2.8m.

    Not sure what it says about the market when there are multiple 540K examples running around at auction at the same time.
     
  10. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy F1 Rookie

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    #60 Timmmmmmmmmmy, Mar 14, 2016
    How many genuine 540K buyers are there at any one time?
     
  11. solofast

    solofast Formula 3

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    #61 solofast, Mar 14, 2016
    Face it, it says that multiple people felt that their cars were probably not going to be worth more in the foreseeable future and that it was time to sell...

    Remember the old SNL skit where Sebastian Cabot did a parody of the Paul Masson wine commercial that was popular at the time...

    For those who don't remember it, or never saw it, Cabot faces the camera and in a solemn tone says

    "Paul Masson will sell no wine before its time"...

    The in the background a voice yells out ...

    "WINE PRICES ARE UP!!!! TIME TO SELL!!!"
     
  12. schwoo

    schwoo Formula Junior

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    #62 schwoo, Mar 14, 2016
    Does anyone know what the Carrera GT sold for at Bonhams?
     
  13. geno berns

    geno berns F1 Rookie

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    #63 geno berns, Mar 14, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2016
    Gooding CGT was withdrawn. RM's sold for $715k. Good price for 1100 mile car.

     
  14. 275gtb6c

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    #64 275gtb6c, Mar 15, 2016
  15. energy88

    energy88 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #65 energy88, Mar 15, 2016
  16. jvmax

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    #66 jvmax, Mar 15, 2016
    I've been following the CGT market for a few years. $650k hammer price on the 1100 mile CGT with new clutch 10 miles ago. About $100k-$300k lower than asking prices right now.
     
  17. BIRA

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    #67 BIRA, Mar 15, 2016
    Not sure it was withdrawn. Got the impression it did not sell. But as described in catalogue, this was a prototype, not drivable with no ECU, and pre emptive right for Porsche to buy in case owner wanted to sell. Makes it very very difficult to sell, unless for static display! If we are talking of the same car!
     
  18. Prancing 12

    Prancing 12 F1 Rookie
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    #68 Prancing 12, Mar 15, 2016
    The car you're referring was indeed a CGT prototype, out of the Seinfeld collection.

    Gooding had earlier listed a guards red Carrera GT that had been withdrawn. A poster on a Porsche forum says he purchased the guards red car, hence it being withdrawn.
     
  19. schwoo

    schwoo Formula Junior

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    #69 schwoo, Mar 17, 2016
    [​IMG]does anyone know what this sold for?
     
  20. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy F1 Rookie

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    #70 Timmmmmmmmmmy, Mar 17, 2016
    Lot 191 - Posche CGT did not sell
     
  21. 635CSI

    635CSI F1 Rookie

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    #71 635CSI, Mar 17, 2016
    Ariziona Jan: Prices not great, global economy and equity markets on their backsides.
    Paris Feb: Prices not great, global economy and equity markets on their backsides.
    Amelia March: Prices a bit better economy a bit better and markets a bit better
    I'n not saying there is a 100% correlation but in the first two months of this year a lot of people would have felt a bit concerned about their wealth, (I know i did) now they feel a bit more secure but things could go south again so is it time to pick up another car?
     
  22. schwoo

    schwoo Formula Junior

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    #72 schwoo, Mar 17, 2016
    Thanks so much!
     
  23. FarEastFerrari

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    #73 FarEastFerrari, Mar 18, 2016
    I would agree the pricing in the auctions are getting better than beginning of the year.
     
  24. 635CSI

    635CSI F1 Rookie

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    #74 635CSI, Mar 18, 2016
    I think so and I have no dog in this fight. I have cars which I would like to retain value, I lust after cars that in a down market could become within reach
    .
    In guess the point I'm making is that we shouldn't separate car values from how much money people feel that have to spend on non essentials.

    Not that Ferraris are non essentials of course.
     
  25. Bobert

    Bobert Formula Junior

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    #75 Bobert, Mar 18, 2016
    The Seinfeld CGT Prototype was a non running car. Porsche had removed the ECU according to the catalog. If you bought it you had to agree to sell it back to Porsche when you were done (and other restrictions)...but it could not be made drivable. My wife and I were there and we saw it bid to $1M...no sale...she said that was a very expensive paperweight!
     
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