Alrighty then....(pun) Gulfstream III

Most likely it pertains to fire hazard and inability to burn. And getting that certification
from the FAA likely makes getting a UL listing seem trivial - it's probably extremely
expensive to get such a rating. And remember that a large number of plane crashes
would have been survivable were it not for an ensuing fire.

Still an insane cost.... but that's what you get in that particular club.

Jedi

 

Oh I know. I am sure their development and certifying costs were insane. I think its great that every piece of an aircraft is tested so thoroughly. You need that confidence when you are 30,000 feet up.

But at some point, it has to become ridiculous. Sure, I would want the interior of my G3 to be fire retardant. But honestly, much like a honey badger, 2000 gallons of flaming jet fuel don't care what kind of foam you are sitting on. If I owned a plane and had the choice between spending $800,000 on an FAA-approved fire retardant interior vs. $80,000 for a equally as nice put possibly not as fire proof interior, I am going the cheaper route. Now, for the actual mechanical nuts and bolts parts of the airplane, by all means I want the good stuff. But if the fire-retardance of the interior upholstery was that crucial to crash survival, why aren't we all required to wear head-to-toe nomex when we fly? I would rather have $720,000 extra dollars in the two briefcases handcuffed to my flying bodyguard's arms to spend when I landed in Monte Carlo!

 

I hope you understand if I politely decline to fly with you in your recently refurbished Aircraft...

Build an experimental,... many of the regs disappear or at least reduced.

 

Haha. No problem! I will just meet you there, and drinks are on me, seeing as how I will have a spare $720K lying around!

 

Wow, I didn't realize people were spending this much on private jets. I knew about interiors having to meet FAA requirements, but to that cost...wow.

There was a thread in the supercars section about air cargo for cars. Every fluid in the car has to be drained and battery disconnected. A midflight cabin fire would be pretty damn scary. I guess the UPS 747 is a good example of that.

 

FAA Requirements - no disagreement here that a whole lot of the regulations are bureaucrats writing new requirements as a path to their own advancement. We used to have to be 12 seconds of vertical burn but that has since been mandated to 60 seconds for each material and as a composite build-up including (in this case) leather, foam and substrate material.

Fireblocking of seating - another evolved FAA requirement. The nuances of how compliance is achieved has some serious logic problems but it is the way the game is played. Even the evolving FAA interpretations over the last 10 years have demonstrated more convoluted logic. Fireblocking in the end requires that different foams be used than the 60 second requirement, the sewing thread is colored Kevlar and all the fabrics and/or leathers have more stringent flameproofing treatments. Not that many facilities in the US have been certified to perform this test. $2,500 per test at cost to a facility. If there are more than one color of leather then a second test. If a chair has a combination of leather and fabric that means 2 tests @ $2,500 each.


Upholstery Man-Hours - figure near 120 man hours or so per chair; no R&R, no repairs. Shop rate for Gulfstream is $112.

New seat belts - new color coordinated webbing (retain existing buckles and hardware) is $75 each belt at the facility's cost.

Leather - cost is in the $12 - $14 per square foot. Figure 3 hides at 60 ft/sq each per chair.

Beyond all this add in shipping, some overhead charges, material mark-up and whatever else Gulfstream invents in their cost build-ups and there you go.

Should mention that part of the FAA requirements are traceability of all materials. Raw material are traceable to their batch fabrication with certification that "it is what it is stated to be". As a material moves through the shops it has to have travelers with QC sign-offs as it goes through each successive process. All these document then have to be kept by the facility doing the work for a long time. The FAA is a paper factory and anyone working in their environment has to embrace it too.

Jeff

 

I've seen people try to do exactly this. It never turns out well in the end-- either they eventually take it to a reputable shop for an inspection (and the shop calls up and says "Hey! Did you know some dumbass put an uncertified interior in this thing?") or they go to sell it, and the shop doing the pre-buy calls the future non-owner and says the same thing.

Either way, you get to pay for it twice-- by doing it the cheapskate way the first time, and redoing it correctly later on.

Much cheaper to do it properly the first time.

 

Mind-boggling! I knew it was all very strict but that is just above and beyond. Kudos to you for working hard in that environment.

Man, I can't wait for the government to finish taking over my world in healthcare. Maybe then we can take some of those regulation writing bureaucrats off your hands!

 

If you're looking for a bit more space than a Lear 35, I would say you should definitely look at the Citation Excel/XLS/XLS+ line. We ended up with exactly that as it's that next size up over the CJ/Lear31/35/Pilatus size of cabin. 5'7 cabin height, real lav, etc. Operating costs isn't quite up to the next level which is a big plus. Seats reasonably comfortably 8 people and you can have 9 with belted lav. THe hawker 800/900 is good as well but a bit larger but obviously higher operating cost as well. Lear 60 is a consideration as well.

Citation X is killer and possibly the fastest out there, but huge fuel burn.

If I had my druthers, I think the best plane for our use would be the Sovereign. The sovereign has operating costs slightly higher than the XLS but much longer range. The XLS can go coast to coast east bound but not west and Hawaii is off limits. THe Sovereign solves those issues. Then again, the Sovereign is double the acquisition cost.