Alonso's future *SPOILER* | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Alonso's future *SPOILER*

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by tifosi12, Oct 21, 2007.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. 62 250 GTO

    62 250 GTO F1 Veteran

    Jan 9, 2004
    7,765
    Nova Scotia Canada
    Full Name:
    Neil
    It would end it in terms of ever going to a top team to compete but he would still get a ride from "his kind of team".
     
  2. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 3, 2002
    48,581
    @ the wheel
    Full Name:
    Andreas
    True. It would be finally a chance for him to score some podiums.
     
  3. 62 250 GTO

    62 250 GTO F1 Veteran

    Jan 9, 2004
    7,765
    Nova Scotia Canada
    Full Name:
    Neil
    Yeah and after that he would still get a ride I'm sure. He's a safe driver if not fast. I don't see why he would get bounced out after failing at a top team.
     
  4. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 3, 2002
    48,581
    @ the wheel
    Full Name:
    Andreas
    He reminds me of Fisichella. At some point you're due to retire.
     
  5. 62 250 GTO

    62 250 GTO F1 Veteran

    Jan 9, 2004
    7,765
    Nova Scotia Canada
    Full Name:
    Neil
    The question for me is "Can Button be more of an asset to a middle team than that team bringing in new talent?" If no, then leaving would be best for F1.
     
  6. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    I see your point, but the biggest mistake he made was contesting the first corner at Brazil. If he had just followed the others in and kept out of it like a mature WDC would have (ie. Alonso) he would have won the WDC. The finger slipping was the start of an "All Blacks" type panic :D

    Pete
     
  7. sandersja

    sandersja Formula Junior

    Jan 16, 2003
    367
    Portland OR
    Full Name:
    John Sanders
    Um... Anyone remember that Alonso tried to blackmail Ron and ended up costing him $100M?

    Maybe it is just me... if that happened to me, it would be worth digging for another $20M just to bench Alonso or use him as test driver for at least a year. Driver's WC or not, I certainly would not have let him race for me the rest of this year.

    Alonso is a good driver BUT... he is clearly dishonorable, dangerous, and poisonous to have on a team. I also keep remembering how awful he was about Flavio and Renault after becoming WC. He kept asserting that it was all him and he did it despite the evil efforts of the rest of the Renault team.

    If he joined Ferrari I would have a very hard time being so enthusiastic about the F1 team.
     
  8. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

    May 12, 2007
    26,826
    England North West
    Full Name:
    Steve
    I read that and thought, Oh well I will carry on maybe constructive. Why do I bother.


    WOW so the All Blacks are the same as Lewis :eek: High praise indeed!!!!

    The one thing I admire about Mclaren is they allow there drivers to race each other it may not be to there benefit but it is sure better to watch.
    Love him or hate him Lewis made this year one of the most exciting seasons in a long time.
     
  9. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    Agree.

    BTW: He will never surpass the All Blacks level, never :).
    Pete
     
  10. Senna3xWC

    Senna3xWC F1 Rookie

    Nov 30, 2006
    3,152
    NYC
    You raise a very interesting point:

    McLaren and Ferrari both allowed each of their drivers to race at the start of the season. Both McLaren drivers remained in contention throughout the season and, as a result, took points away from each other and therefore cost the team both championships (ignoring the Stepneygate penalty for the moment).

    Ferrari, on the other hand, had one driver drop out of contention and therefore had him support the other, ultimately allowing their lead driver to win the WDC and the team to capture the WCC.

    Had both Ferrari drivers been in contention throughout the season, would Massa have been forced to support Kimi? Had McLaren designated one driver over the other, would they have won both titles?

    It is easy to envision the situations reversed, Massa could have stayed in contention through the end of the season with fewer errors and McLaren could have opted to designate one driver over the other. Had they done so, the season finale could have been very different.

    So my question is: Ferrari and McLaren utilized the same approach at the beginning of the season, allowing both drivers to race. Ferrari relegated Massa to #2 only because he was mathematically eliminated, not because of team policy. McLaren on the other hand had two drivers both in contention and therefore could not relegate one to #2 status. This being the case, can we really fault McLaren for their decisions and should we really laude Ferrari for going to a #1 and #2 policy or is this merely the natural result of the season's progression?
     
  11. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

    May 12, 2007
    26,826
    England North West
    Full Name:
    Steve
    It is sort of a rough justice that Mclaren's ideal went wrong given LH's sheer pace FA's awesome talent ie set up skills ect. At the end instead of the team going for a sealed up front row, they had to prove to the world they were not showing favour. Not to point the finger at anyone But it was Lewis's to win and lose he was trying to prove to much, had Mc said To FA your job is now to help LH win it may have been different.. Likewise At some stage if LH was told make it good but we want FA to win JUST DO IT!! Yet again the win was there to be had..

    Mc IMO had a better car and brillant drivers yet lost it because mainly LH's error but this was forced pressure heaped on him because of the team divide ie In Brazil when FA passed him IMO he just had red mist and lost it. Had he felt FA was going to help him win who Knows..

    So I still admire Mc Although I think Ferrari got the benefit from it..The best policy hard to say..:)
     
  12. Senna3xWC

    Senna3xWC F1 Rookie

    Nov 30, 2006
    3,152
    NYC
    Exactly.

    My point is that we cannot criticize McLaren for allowing both their drivers to race as Ferrari had the exact same policy up to the point where Massa was no longer in contention. It might well have easily been Ferrari that allowed both drivers to contend up to the last race. Conversely, the only reason one driver did not support the other at McLaren is because both were in contention to the very end. Both teams were pursuing the exact same strategy throughout the season, let the drivers race and only require one to support the other when he was out of the hunt.

    I think McLaren's execution of the hand dealt to them was sloppy, conversely I think Ferrari's strategy worked perfectly. All in all, it was tremendously exciting, you couldn't script a better finsih to the season.
     
  13. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

    May 12, 2007
    26,826
    England North West
    Full Name:
    Steve
    +1000

    Heres to next year..;)
     
  14. PhilNotHill

    PhilNotHill Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jul 3, 2006
    27,855
    Aspen CO 81611
    Full Name:
    FelipeNotMassa
    Partly Alonso. He pressured Eennis and some say even tried to blackmail him into making FA number one on the team.

    Then there was the Lewis camp in Britain who would have screamed bloody murder if FA was numero uno. The LH camp consisted of the British media, Bernie, LH's father, Lewis himself and probably Ron Dennis.

    This was a recipe for disaster. No one was strong enough to rein in FA. Certainly the media was out of control.

    I don't know what McL could have done. The spy scandal did them no good in the end.

    It will be interesting if McL's strategy changes in 2008. Very intersting. first we have to find out who the players will be...FA or Button or whoever. Yes, very interesting. ;)
     
  15. IanMac

    IanMac Formula 3

    Jul 26, 2006
    1,453
    Scotland
    Full Name:
    Ian
    It really all boils down to what was in the drivers' contracts. If the contracts did not specify that FA was number one driver and LH number two driver Alonso had no right to later demand number one status, if he wanted that he should have ensured it was in his contract. If it was not in the contracts and had that status later been given to FA, LH would rightly have had grounds for complaint.

    If FA had been made number one from the outset the 'Lewis camp' as you put it would have accepted that, given LH was a rookie and FA was the world champion. RD certainly would not have been screaming bloody murder because FA could only have been number one if RD himself had given him that status.
     
  16. PhilNotHill

    PhilNotHill Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jul 3, 2006
    27,855
    Aspen CO 81611
    Full Name:
    FelipeNotMassa
    Putting who's number 1 driver in the contract smacks of the verboten "team orders". Wonder if they can put it in or would somebody sue the team?
     
  17. Senna3xWC

    Senna3xWC F1 Rookie

    Nov 30, 2006
    3,152
    NYC
    The problem is that McLaren traditionally has no #1 driver, it has always been the team policy to allow the drivers to race until one of them was mathematically eliminated. Alonso knew this when he signed fo rthe team so he really has no right to complain about his treatment (or lack of preferential treatment to be more precise).
     
  18. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 11, 2003
    13,163
    Orange County
    Full Name:
    Anthony T
    Ted, I think the issue with Alonso is he felt (rightly or wrongly) that Lewis was getting beneficial treatment within the team. Also unlike Kimi who Alonso (again I don't no either, but from the past comments) respected, the same cannot be said of Lewis as a Rookie.
     
  19. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

    May 12, 2007
    26,826
    England North West
    Full Name:
    Steve
    Tony not sure what you mean, do you mean FA doesn't respect Lewis?.

    Or you don't like him because of his attitude.

    Sorry if I got it all wrong ;)
     
  20. NYCFerrariKid

    NYCFerrariKid Rookie

    Oct 28, 2007
    2
    LH is right in contesting the assertion that there is perspicasity in the

    tautological assumption that Mclaren needs to take a raincheck on 'things'.

    I always hold the belief that FA's talent hold is withheld from true

    fruition, by scurrilous disparagement, gratuitous vituperation, profane

    oaths, malignant calumny and yes...even perjorative assertions that equals

    BS! In other words: hey guys take a look at yourselves. +1000 needs an

    enema man! An enema, I say. Right here, right now! You guys in the UK need

    to liven-up; lighten-up and view Nascar rules. FA doesn't respect Lewis,

    'cos he needs to be in Nas man. Nascar I say. Hear what I'm sayin'? Are you

    feelin' me man??????
     
  21. phylotic

    phylotic Formula Junior
    BANNED

    May 20, 2007
    547
    US/EU
    Full Name:
    Gheorghe
    In McL's case it was not so much strategy as team dynamics.
    It was not McL allowing them to compete freely, rather the drivers
    hating each other + fueling team discord.

    McL became a vipers pit and they ended up drowning in their own refuse.
    Had they been just competing they would have won.
    All this based on appearances ... some of the button presses floating around
    look amusing.
     
  22. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 11, 2003
    13,163
    Orange County
    Full Name:
    Anthony T
    Steve, I always felt that FA never respected Hamilton due to the fact that he was a Rookie and Alonso felt that Hamilton was getting beneficial treatment from McLaren.
     
  23. PhilNotHill

    PhilNotHill Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jul 3, 2006
    27,855
    Aspen CO 81611
    Full Name:
    FelipeNotMassa
    One has to earn respect IMVHO. You have to respect others for them to sespect you. A two way street.

    It looked to me like Lewis was being respectful of Alonso...in public any way (particularly before Turkey). Alonso should have kept his cool and been more respectful of Lewis, Dennis and the McL team. After all, he was the WDC (it feels so good to say "was").

    If Alonso is treated disrespectfully now, it's his own fault...a result of his treatment toward others.

    The more turmoil on FA's team, the better for Ferrari IMVHO. FA has met his own worst enemy every time he looks in the mirror. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. ;)
     
  24. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    Agree, but not sure about the "never" respected comment. Remember Alonso was working relatively happily with LH at the begining of the season, sharing setups, etc. I think the respect disappeared due to McLaren favouritism and LH's head exploding.

    Pete
     
  25. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 11, 2003
    13,163
    Orange County
    Full Name:
    Anthony T
    +1
     

Share This Page