ALONSO: Which Team In 2008 (Poll)

+1000000

 

+1

Yes, I think Hamilton will be the next F1 superstar and will surpass both Kimi and Alonso. However he will never be pried away from McLaren.

Kimi and Alonso would be a formidable pairing and I don't care one way or the other about Alonso's personality. Any driver in F1 that is not in it for himself is destined to be a career #2 (Massa, anyone?). Alonso wants to win and he cares only about winning, that is good enough for me.

ALL of the great champions, ALL of them, are selfish and self-centered. yes, that completely includes Schumacher. As discussed ad nauseum on this site, Schumacher was in it completely for himself, the "team player" notion is a myth.

 

He did that already at Renault by being their test driver for a couple of years and then took them all the way to the very top. He is considered as the best car developer currently in F1.

 

Best drivers?!? Massa?!? Did someone screw up your pain medication?!?

Stop it, Ron! You're killing me!!

Team spirit?

cough*Stepneygate*cough

cough*BrawntoHonda*cough

cough*LdM v. Todt*cough

I am VERY concerned about Ferrari's internal team issues. If there is a weakness in the team's armor, it is internal squabbling.

 

Yes. I believe Phil is fourth.

With Alonso split between two different teams, this is good for Ferrari in 2008 IMVHO.

 

+1
Wherever Alonso will end up, it will be way late to help develop the 08 car.

Ferrari is the team to beat next year.

 

He did it all to ensure that HE won. He sure didn't motivate the team so Irvine could win the title... :rolleyes

The only team Schumacher drove for was Team Schumacher.

 

Statistics?!?

All that shows is how good the Ferrari is. Rubens did more with that car than Massa did. I can think of half a dozen drivers who would have done more than Massa achieved this season had they been driving the Ferrari.

So Massa was in the top 4. let me guess...he was fourth.

 

Not necessarily a comment about Massa, but what is so surprising about that finding? I mean he came in 4th in the Championship. Are rocket scientists working for Autosport and F1 mag to figure this out? Let me guess, the other 3 drivers are the top three from the championship?

I have always an issue with all these "best driver of the year" nominations from all these magazines, tv shows and what have you. I think it is all BS. There is a drivers' championship. That's all that matters, everything else is just a bunch of noise. Even some of my fav magazines feel the need to select their driver of the year. And guess what: It is usually the guy who just won the title. What a surprise. Nott.

 

...my bad, I mean do that AGAIN...all that happened between him and Lucifer looks like is creating some "bad vives" around in my opinion, I was convinced to see ALONSO completely SOLDOUT in the first week after the McLaren release...and it doesnt look like it...not even close.

I think there "might" be something wrong, something on top of the one year contract... or is he just being extra cautious this time around?

 

Many are saying Alonso is waiting to see how the Renault/McLaren Spy saga will play out. If Renault gets hit with a fine like McLaren did there would be a) a very weakened Renault or b) no Renault F1 at all.

 

+1

The only way anyone could say that Phil was better than fourth is if he had sacrificed his own position to let his team mate take the championship. He did this a couple of times but not enough to change the standings or my opinion of his abilities.

We have a WDC to determine who is the best driver. Over time the better drivers will end up in the better cars. The guys who run the teams and put up the money have a vested interest in getting the best driver in their car. Their opinion counts more than anyone else's.

So Phil is fourth. If he drives the same next year as he drove this year and places higher than fourth it will be because he is in a better car than Lewis and Fred. Of course, he may improve his driving. I hope he does. I think we have to expect that people will continue to perform as they have in the past until they do something to prove others wrong...which means they must produce better results.

 

Completely Agree!!!!

 

"Hang on...ok ok you can have my complete list of naughty girls as well" ....
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

+1, and totally agree also with Andreas.

Massa is not the fourth best driver on the F1 grid at the moment, but he is taking the very best car and managing to get fourth in the WDC. That in itself proves that he is not as good as the car, and thus not really the fourth best driver. I guess the stupid magazine rated Kimi as the best driver? ... one even has to question that because all he did was take the very best car and win with it. There is probably a driver way further down the grid that is taking close to the worst car on the grid and finished way higher in the WDC than he should ... anybody do the stats?

Thus the mags, to do this stupid rating of drivers, need to first rate their car, and then based on where they finished in the WDC determine if they improved on the cars performance or not ... but yes okay the winners are winners because the cream rises to the top, but Alonso (for example) performed miracles in the Minardi when he drove that. That is how you rate a driver. Massa when he drove a Sauber (a car surely better than a Minardi?) performed poorly ... and yet a few years later he still managed to end up in the best team ... hmmm, yeah ofcourse this has nothing to do with Todt's son, yeah right !
Pete

 

Ferrari: Raikkonen slightly quicker than Massa.
McLaren: No clear winner between Hamilton and Alonso.
BMW: Heidfeld ahead of Kubica.
Renault: Kovalainen quicker than Fisichella.
Williams: Rosberg very significantly quicker than Wurz.
Red Bull: Webber quicker than Coulthard.
Toyota: Trulli ahead of Ralf Schumacher.
Toro Rosso: Liuzzi quicker than Speed, Vettel marginally quicker than Liuzzi.
Honda: Button quicker than Barrichello.
Super Aguri: Davidson quicker than Sato.
Spyker: Sutil quicker than Albers or Yamamoto.


But next year we have a reset button: new cars, new technical regs, new circumstances, new motivations. So the above list cannot in any way be taken as definitive.

As with most things in F1, the targets are forever moving. It’s at once a fascination and frustration of the sport.

 

On a side note Autosport's end of the year annual often doesn't follow the points finishing’s for driver ratings. I seem to remember that in 1996 they rated MS as the No 1 driver even though he finished 3rd in the points. I'm probably wrong but I do remember the drivers being out of their WDC order.

 

I agree that they are in it for themselves. However, I don't recall Senna or Schumacher trashing their teams in public like alonso does. Sure, Senna would say publicly that the team had work to do if they were to stay in front of Williams, etc. But that was to warn the team and to motivate them to do better. I don't remember him ever saying the "team weren't supporting him" ot they "didn't want him to win the title" or any other such nonsense as alonso has done, both at McLaren and at Renault.

With Kimi at Ferrari they have at least as quick a driver as alonso, if not quicker. Massa has proved to be a good enough #2. That formula worked very well during the Schumacher years (6 consecutive Constructor Championships). I don't see the need for a change.

 

IMO The only worry Ferrari will have is Lewis ,IF the 08 Mclaren car is as good as it was this year..

I'am prepared to eat my words though..

 

I agree, they should be very strong next year. I really like Lewis but I still hope Kimi can make it a double

 

How can McLaren be strong?. There development budget has taken a hit, and if they come out winning the FIA will assume they have an unfair advantage and jump on them.

I personally cannot see McLaren making a competitive car for a couple of years ... unless the FIA leave them alone.
Pete

 

I doubt they won't be able to absorb the hit to their bank account. Between taking on some debt and getting cash from Mercedes and billionair co-owner Mansour Ojei (spelling?) they should have plenty of money for development. As for the FIA, I doubt they can simply use winning against McLaren to prove they used stolen data. I'm hoping we have a really competetive season in 2008 with a tough 3 team fight for the title. With Kimi winning it of course...