Uh...how about FA finished higher in the points than Massa for how many seasons now? How about that Massa has been beaten by his teammates EVERY year he's participated in F1 except 2005 where JV scored 9 points at Sauber and he scored 11. Big whoop. Massa is a mediocre driver in an excellent car. And you're the one claiming people are disrespecting the engineers and car designers and want to see FA in a dog of a car (did you see him in the Minardi? McFly?! HELLO?!). Please, you're disrespecting Ferrari engineers in saying MASSA of all people is an excellent driver. He's average and that's it. KR > FM MS > FM GF > FM NH > FM FM > JV (11 points to 9, that's it) The only reason he's driving for Ferrari is because his agent's dad is Todt. Oh yeah, and the fact he was supposed to play the role of Rubens v2.0 in MS's last season, but he dropped the ball. He felt like he needed to prove the world wrong about him and in doing so, screwed MS out of a WDC (Turkey pit stop anyone???). He nearly did the same **** to KR... THOSE are facts. YOU have provided nothing.
Massa is a mediocre driver in an excellent car - NOT FACT, only opinion The only reason he's driving for Ferrari is because his agent's dad is Todt - NOT FACT, only opinion Screwed MS out of a WDC - Massa didn't lose the WDC for Schumacher, Schumacher lost it for himself He nearly did the same **** to KR... - How so? Because he raced as best as he could when there was no defined #1? Previous results do not convert to future results. Just because Massa was beat in the past by teammates doesn't mean he always will. You aren't allowing for personal improvement.
I guess you really hate Massa huh. FA sucked his first season. He's not superman . His car and tires flattered him in 05 and 06. I stand by this statemant. His so called development skills are NOT better than other drivers. If you're really that high on Alonso you can have him at BMW. Oh wait Mario Thiessen said he doesn't want Alonso's poison at BMW. Agree. Kimi is the fastest right now. Agree . No one was faster than MS. Disagree. Disagree. Agree. If it wasn't for the MS farce at Monaco , his mistake in Australia and engine failure in Japan he would have been champion. It's not Felipe's fault that MS couldn't pass FA and stayed in third. MS screwed MS out of the WDC. This year if it wasn't for FM, LH would have been champion and not KR. You always do the points thread ; calculate what would have happened if Massa hadn't won his four races.
I respectfully disagree. Remember the mockery of Indy 2005. Didn't he even try to give the trophy to Rubens on the podium amid the chorus of boos? Schummy can be unselfish at times (and I'm a huge MS fan!) FA leaving McLaren was a foregone conclusion at the end of the season. It "seems" that the huge money (i.e. Toyota) is not his most important issue. I'd hate to see another BAR fiasco. He doesn't seem interested in "wasting a year", or he'd go for the money for 2008. Looks like SF is out next year. IMHO, he really only has a chance to be competitive at Renault or BMW for 2008. For F1 racing, this would really be a great season. RBR has been a disappointment. I really thought the car this year with Newey would have them running with BMW. With the appropriate one-year contract (or does it even matter any more?), he could have all his options for 2009. I'm guessing Ferrari is his #1, but he'll end up at Renault. Renault have also been fully developing the 2008 car since July.
It's unbelievable that you say Massa is just as fast as a 2x WDC. This year Ferrari had the faster car (slightly) and Massa finished 4th in the points. Last year Ferrari and the Renault R26 were nearly on par and Fernando still didn't have problems outpacing Massa. It was so ****ing smooth to see Kimi waltz into Ferrari and win his first race with them and win the WDC in his first year. THAT'S how it should've been done by Massa if you want to compare him to Alonso, but he couldn't do it. He's average, at best. Beaten by his teammates in all his seasons except a washed out JV, lol. GO KIMI! WDC '08.
That would be funny, wouldn't it? I'm still on the fence, but there is a chance I might become a STR/Sebastian-square (hey, that rhimes!) fan. But if Alonso ends up at RBR, well I guess I'd have to root for them as well... While I like "Racing per Matchett", I think it is kinda funny that they pick RBR (although it makes sense come to think of it with the Matchett connection and all): Why would we want to learn F1 technology from a midfield team? Does Matchett show us how it is NOT supposed to be done?
Believe it, at best Alonso is not any faster than LH , KR and FM. That was my original statement correct. ?? If you read any of my posts you’ll see that I always said that he’s talented and he’s quick, however what he did this season DOES NOT make him any faster than the other three. I also gave you the reasons why I believe so and I’ll repeat them for you: 1. Bahrain : Beaten by FM,KR and LH. 2. Canada: Idiotic move at that start that cost him the race, beaten by LH , LH and FM (until pit issue). 3. Spain: Idiotic move at start. Beaten by FM and LH. 4. Indy: Beaten by LH. 5. France: Beaten by KR,FM,LH and NH. 6. Turkey : Beaten by KR,FM and LH (until tire issue). 7. Fuji: Mistake in Wet. 8. Brazil: Beaten by KR and FM. Now tell me is that what you call a two time world champion? Forget FA off track antics this season, but can you imagine MS beaten by his freaking rookie teammate right out of the box??? Do you think if LH and MS were teammates would they have been fighting for the WDC? If points are all what you base your opinion on then MS forgot how to drive in 05 and 06. Granted any driver can have a bad day and Ferrari can be better at some tracks and Mclaren at others, but Alonso’s season this year has been inconsistent and marred by idiotic moves that belie a champion. You can agree or disagree with my statement that’s up to you and frankly I could care less but I still stand by what I said: The Michelins and the Renault flattered FA in 05 and 06 and if it weren’t for them he wouldn’t have been champion. In the same car he is not faster than KR,LH and FM.
You still haven't added value to this discussion. You give credit to Michelin and Renault for '05 and '06, but not Alonso? At the same time you don't take anything away from MS in '00 to '04 even though Ferrari and Bridgestone put together the best package on the field? It's the same thing that happened with FA at Renault! Are you blind? I get it. When MS doesn't win a championship, it's because the car/tire failed. When he wins its, all the credit goes to him and the car/tires are an afterthought. Now it's the complete opposite in your eyes for FA. When he won the championships, it's because of the car/tires. When he loses the championship, it's because he's not a good enough driver. Yawn. You posted yet another worthless post. Come back to me when Massa wins just ONE championship (preferably two). P.S. What about Rubens outpacing the entire field except MS almost every race (and outpaced MS a few times), but now went back to sucking when he's not in a Ferrari? FAIL. Some of you posters that are in love with Massa need to give it up. I don't know why you like that kid so damn much. Alway root for the underdog/loser I suppose?
Al: Forget it. This guy disagreed with you that Heidfeld is a faster driver than Massa. He probably doesn't realize that the two of them were teammates at Sauber and that Heidfeld blew Massa's doors off in identical machinery. Your reference to Rubens is 100% correct. He finished twice runner-up in the WDC and won, I think, 9 GPs. Since leaving Ferrari he hasn't done a damn thing. Massa will be exactly the same.
That would be the second half of the 2007 season. As soon as Alonso started talking about LH getting better treatment both stopped sharing set up info. I'd say LH did OK on finding a good set up on his own.
Not sure about this: Given the tight quarters of a F1 team, I find it hard to believe that one car's setup could be hidden from the engineers of the other car.
Yes I suppose this is true as well, although I doubt there was any tips flowing back and forth after the fuss. I really have a job getting my head round how FA claims to make the car quite as fast as he does though , I'am not disputing the fact, it is common knowledge he can and full marks to him it is to be admired. I would imagine when getting down to 10ths of a sec it is down to the driver himself as what would suit one would not suit another.
Exactly. There are basically 3 steps to setups: First they start out with something based on experience, then comes in the fine tuning (the part Alonso wasn't sharing anymore) and finally the invidual touches, which suit a driver's individual style. So it is "only" the second part that wasn't shared/of interest, but as I said, I have a hard time imagining how that could be hidden from the other driver's engineers. It is probably more the sharing of experience and ideas that got stopped.
