Alfa GTV6 -- what's it like to drive?

Haven't sat in the driver's seat, but spent quite a few hours as passenger in a good friend's GTV6. Simply put - one hell of a fun car!

Only issues seemed to be delicate synchros, lost a head gasket once, & had some vapor lock problems when restarting after spirited drives on hot days.

 

The GTV6 has a fantastic sound and handling. I actually like the looks. So much so that I owned 3, including one with a 3 litre engine from the verde.
Hatch is small and the a/c is not all that it could be, unless you get the 86 with "tropic air". The car has a lof glass. It kind of feels like you are sitting in a glass cathedral, the way the angles and the pillars intersect in space (Fay Jones was the architect of the glass chapel I am refering to).
The car has torque aplenty, but the gearbox is vague and has long throws. Assembly quality is iffy, too, but the known problems are out there: rubber dopnuts (guibos), popping plenums, weak water pumps, inboard brake issues, coolant reservoir cracking....
For under $6K for a perfect one, quite a bit of thrills !

 

Someone else wrote this, but it pretty much describes the car perfectly.

Quirky but competent Italian racer
May 09 '04

Author's Product Rating


Reliability:
Seat Comfort:
Quality and Craftsmanship:
Roominess:

Pros
Aggressive design, exhaust notes, incredible handling.

Cons
80's Italian build quality, expensive repairs, odd design and electrical quirks.

The Bottom Line
This quirky Italian from the 80's requires regular maintenance but is a blast to drive.


Full Review
I recently sold my 1984 Alfa Romeo GTV6. I was the third owner of this car and bought it as my first car after graduating med school in 1996. I'd always wanted one as a teenager.

I had no idea what I was getting into with these Italian cars. This write-up is being done solely from memory, but believe me, my memory of this car is very sharp since I spent a lot of time at the shop during the early years of ownership. I drove the car as a daily for about three years and then it went into storage. I just recently sold her to a good home after screeing three year's worth of prospective buyers. Is this odd? Read on and you'll see why Alfa owners are considered some of the most fanatically loyal people in the automotive world.

We "Alfistas" as we are called, tend to humanize our cars, obsess over them, and know every mechanical quirk.

OVERVIEW:
There's an old adage that states that Italians don't care about anything on a car unless it makes it go faster. Keeping this in mind will make clear the GTV6's odd mechanical, ergonomic, and design quirks. The GTV6 is the final incarnation of Alfa's GTV line which received the V6 powerplant in 1981.

All Alfa's need to have the be-jeesus driven out of them to run at their best. But all Alfa's must also be maintained regularly to prevent minor problems from rapidly spiralling into catastrophic failures. Alfa's are not designed to be garage queens.

DESIGN:
The GTV6 is a 2+2 two-door hatchback. The body was designed by the Italian design house of Guigaro, versus Pininfarina who did the design work for the Spyder (as well as some Ferraris). It looks very sleek and aggressive from just about every angle. In 1984 a two-toned red upper half and gray lower body paint scheme was offered. This is what I had.

The frame employed unit-body construction and made the car quite light and rigid. However, like all Alfas, the exterior is prone to rust.

ENGINE:
The GTV6 engine is a standard V6 with hemispherical heads (ooooh, it's a Hemi). It employs a "wet sleeve" design which funnels coolant through the aluminum block to direcly cool the cylinders. It was a very advanced engine design at the time. The engine generates about 155hp which was also quite good at the time.

The intake and plenum for the GTV6 necessitated a design change in the hood of the car. Since the engine was too tall, Alfa designers cut a hole in the hood and covered it with a plastic plate. The plenum and throttle assembly are held together with rubber tubes and there is some "play" between the two. Additionally, sometimes the engine will "fart" (as my mechanic put it), and a backfire upon start up will overpressurize the tubes, blow the plenum off of the throttle body and up through the plastic plate, often times starting a fire. This actually happened once to me.

The engine is finicky and requires constant maintenance and strict adherence to scheduled oil changes, water pump changes, timing chain changes. While these can be expensive, they will prevent you from having a complete engine failure. Missing a timing chain adjustment could send your valves smashing into your pistons...etc...etc.

Aside from my one backfire, my engine never failed and was the one aspect of the car that didn't require major work. I ran the snot out of it in all types of weather and driving conditions and it never let me down. It was rebuilt at 90k miles, just before I bought it.

Alfa engines produce most of their power and torque at 5k rpms and above, which means they are meant to be driven hard. The engines also get fairly hot and require adequate cool down time if you've been on a brisk drive. On hot days, I used to let the fan run for about 10 minutes before turning the car off.

SUSPENSION:
In the Euro-spec GTV, the car is actually lowered. My U.S. car was re-tuned to this level. It looks aggressive, but the front end is prone to rock chips, and you may want to get plastic domed headlight protectors. Steep driveways can be a problem in lowered cars for both the front spoiler and the exhaust tend to scrape. The car actually cornered better than my 2002 M Roadster, but at a cost.

The rear suspension is a DeDion-type configuration and one of many quirks in the GTV6. The DeDion suspension uses two supports in an "X" type configuration to keep the rear wheels at 90 degrees to the road at all times. The drawback is that the actual height of the suspension is quite high and it actually extends up into the rear storage area behind the rear seats. This fact means that there is a solid wall between the rear seats and the rear trunk, and this limits your storage. It makes the car go faster, however, so whaddya expect?

A previous owner had installed a complete Koni suspension package (shocks and springs) on the car and it made the ride stiffer than Ron Jeremy on Viagra. It was merciless to drive on anything but the most well maintained of roads.

It should also be mentioned that not everyone does a good job of lowering the GTV6 to Euro-spec. Front ends, in particular, should be scrutinized by making sure that front tire wear is even. Uneven wear means at best, you need and alignment, and at worst, you need to have your suspension adjusted.

TRANSMISSION:
The GTV6 employs a rear transaxle which gives it a 50/50 weight distribution. The throws on the gear shift are somewhat long and most of the GTV6 synchros and clutches have been upgraded with those found in the Alfa Romeo Milano (which is the GTV6 platform). The shifts between 1st and 2nd are prone to a "clunking" noise, and the gearbox itself doesn't provide crisp shifts.

The driveshaft requires regular replacement of its rubber spacers (called guibos). You'll hear a clunking sound from the driveshaft when these start to fail, and I should mention that since the mechanic will have to remove the entire exhaust system to access the driveshaft, that this is an expensive prospect.

INTERIOR:
Quirks abound.

There are either cloth or leather seats. I had the red exterior/tan interior layout. After 20 years, the leather had to be repaired in spots, as one would imagine, but on the whole it held up rather well. The seats are Recaro type and fairly lightweight with enclosed mesh headrests.

The steering wheels on most of the GTV6's were made out of wood, but I had a small racing-type Momo wheel which partially blocked the tach and speedo. Both of these are located in a central intrument cluster.

The headlight controls are a "tree" that juts off of the steering column in an inexplicable "twist-on/off" configuration. The door exit handles are located beneath the door armrests and hard to find. The front electric window controls are located in the front console and you have to lean forward to reach them. These fail so often that Alfa provided an emergency handle which could be plugged into sockets in the doors to manually operate the windows. The rear windows are in a split configuration and the rear window control knobs are round, if you can believe that. It's virtually impossible to raise and lower them while seated in the cramped rear.

The manual sunroof works quite well, but regular clearing of the drainage holes is needed to prevent water from leaking into the roof upholstery. A simple blast of compressed air from a tire inflator will do this.

Both the cigarette lighter and the control element for the side mirros is located to the rear of the center console, making them both hard to reach, and prone to damage from elbows.

The oil pressure gauge, fuel gauge, clock, and water temp were located in the center console and actually fairly easy to see. The fuel gauge accuracy was never that good and the needle tended to wobble about on twisty roads.

CLIMATE CONTROL:
This was clearly an afterthough for Alfa engineers. The climate control system and AC are powerless and horrid. The circular air vents are prone to breakage and simply fall out of their receptacles. In defrost mode they don't clear the windshield very well, and in AC mode they don't cool the car at all. I was able to "brown out" my entire car's electrical system when driving in rain with the defrost, rear defrost, wipers, and headlights running at once. I really didn't use the climate control for anything but defrosting and the job it did was marginal at best.

ELECTRICAL:
The electrical system of these cars is also inexpicably prone to random failures. For no apparent reason, I would have fuses overheat and fail, and I made it a habit to carry extras at all times. I'm not sure if this was due to the fact that I had disconnected my radio or not.

ERGONOMICS:
Dreadful. Everything peripheral to the steering wheel is difficult to reach and requires you to lean forward from the low and declined driving position. Shifting, operating console controls, etc are all problematic. Visibility is about average and there is pretty good space for larger front passengers. The rear seats are useless for anybody over three feet tall, and I never used them.

BUILD QUALITY:
The fit and finish of most Italian cars from the 80's is what you'd expect since a lot of work was done by hand. I've always said that the reason all Alfa's have a "soul" is because they're all different...in the sens that the minor build flaws necessitate that any Alfa owner "get to know" his car from the ground up. One can't help but humanize a car that you are always working on.

For some odd reason, the gas station pumps didn't like to run at full power and would automatically shut off for no reason, even if the tank was empty. I used to have to fill the car at about half-speed to get a good fill-up.

My car had its rear hatch hydraulics replaced and they worked great, but they are prone to expected failures.

You may notice quite a bit of heat coming up from around the emergency brake handle. This is from the exhaust system and is mildly annoying.

SPECIAL MODELS:
There are a few limited design models that Alfa produced. While many dealers did some "bolt-on" mods with spoilers and stickers, the two stand-outs are the 1982 Balocco model and the 1984 (I think) Maratona. Callaway's first modified car ever produced was a twin-turbo GTV6--these are exceptionally rare.

PERFORMANCE:
If you've read up to this point, you're probably asking yourself why any sane person would buy this car. Quite simply, it is rewarding to drive, despite all of its quirks. The exhaust notes are unmistakeably Italian--throaty, deep, and loud. I had an ANSA exhaust and used to love revving the car up just to hear the noise.

The car is a true cafe racer. To say that it's agile is an understatement. While it's 0-60 times won't impress many people (being about 8.5 seconds), it is exceptionally competent in the twisties. It has neutral steering characteristics and a good feel, being manual. In truth, most modern cars have too much understeer for my taste.

The braking on the car is about average for the era.

SUMMING IT UP:
After reading about all of the odd characteristics of the GTV6, you are probably asking "why oh why did you buy it?" and even more so "why oh why do you regret selling it?"

Truth be told, I can only offer up the rather unsatisfying statement that it's Italian. And if the metaphor of women and cars is cliche to you, I can't offer anything else. The GTV6 is a finicky quirky drama queen that will require regular attention, but it will make you feel good when you're in the driver's seat.

I loved my GTV6 and regret selling it everyday. I loved driving it and eventually loved maintaining the car despite the dent it put in my wallet. I self-taught myself how to fix minor malfunctions.

The GTV6 or any Alfa, for that matter, will require a certain type of driver. I was fortunate enough to have that type of personality.

I'd check out www.gtv6.org if you're interested in this car.

 

I had a GTV6 in 1999 which i bought with 3K on the clock.

Its a nice sounding V6 that looks wonderful.

The driving position is odd, the floor drops away from the drivers seat and the seats are not comfortable.

the wprst thing is that the v6 is a nose heavy lump lacking the little finesse that the 2 litres had. Never handled very well. There are better cars- oh and hang oin to your hat for resale!

Also panels very prone to denting

 

i had a Milano with the same engine.

if you follow the proper alfa maintenance including timing belts, water pump and tensioner with religious oil changes, these cars are very robust and last long.

weak areas are interior trim, second gear synchro, electrics might act up but usually down to bad connectors or relays, easy fix.....

they drive wonderful, engine is silk smooth and loves to be revved, sounds glorious past 5k and has good response for the power it puts out. they handle well and offer great chassis feedback. US versions had softer springs with more body roll.

find a good 85-86 model and its a blast, pieces are easily available and car is reliable!

 

I had an '83 GTV6 2.5 back in 1990 and it was a wonderful car for a daily driver. Had the car for three years before a 164QV. The only gripe was the clunky gear change especially 1st to 2nd and back. Had the transmission rebuilt with new synchros when I did the top overhaul due to what else....valve guides! All parts if I can recall came from Italian Auto Parts and Shankle, along with a short- shift kit that improves the shifting very significantly. Check the magnesium rims for any sign of pitting and whatever foibles that an alfetta GTV has, has been covered in the above posts.

I used to own too, the front wheel drive GTV6 3.0 which I think you US folks didn't get. Great car except the driving wheels are on the wrong side! Driving impressions are akin to driving a smaller, coupe version of a 164 with chopped roof and only a slight better feel to handling. Beautiful it was but nowhere near the original GTV6.

 

For a dependable everyday driver I'd choose another car.

JMO

 

I had both a 4cyl Alfetta GT and a GTV-6. Both had a nearly perfect 50/50 weight distribution --- although on the GTV-6 they mounted a pretty hefty rear bumper to offset the bigger engine up front.

The GTV-6 is a dream to drive "con gusto". It has the front engine/rear transbox configuration also used by the 550 and Daytona. It really comes alive at 45 MPH and up -- around town it sleeps. The DiDion gives it a bit of body roll that makes you hesitate to push it harder in turns ... but the body roll comes on early then doesn't get much worse thereafter. Another engineer friend and I did a lot of scribbling on napkins trying to figure that one out.

But the suspension let you dive into a turn with very late braking. There was very little suspension shift from decel to accel, so opening the throttle at the apex wouldn't derange the friction circle. I couldn't power past a 5-series bimmer that was determined to get in my way, but I waxed him under braking.

Due to the rear transaxle, the shifter is long throw and a bit vague. (A review described it as "a broomstick in a bathtub".) You had to feel your way through shifts -- no paddle driven speed shifts here. The twin plate clutch had a hair-trigger feel to it I didn't like; I eventually replaced it with a single plate clutch from a Milano. You could dislocate an ankle trying to h&t it, with the pedal set up mine had.

The driving position is considered odd ... until you get used to it. The thing to remember about Alfas is that the designers consider elbows to be a design flaw in drivers. If your arms aren't straight out, you're driving it wrong.

The backfire is a definite issue in the GTV-6: I had one bend the flapper plate in the AFM on mine, requiring a replacement. The later AFMs had a backpressure relief poppet valve on them. I had to replace the plenum intake hoses, too, after a while.

My biggest complaint about my '81 was the early Bosch L-Jet system -- when Bosch figured out that a computer could handle dozens of sensors ... but hadn't remembered that 10x the parts means 10x the failures. No OBD, so there's always one or two sensors not working. But 3x8 owners with K-jet Lambda systems are familiar with the same effect: Diagnosis is a PITA, compared to self-diagnosing ricers of the same era.

Mine had some body rust around the wheel wells when I sold it. It will be hard to find one without rust today. Centerline and International sell replacement body panels for them, so if you want to fix one up -- keep it waxed afterwards. Alfas dissolve in road salt.

But the GTV-6 was my daily driver for four years, before a Fiat-ized Alfa dealer destroyed the engine. (The head gaskets are weird, four-piece things -- get them in wrong, and the aluminum cooks itself. Then that idiot dealer pulled three studs out of the block trying to "fix" it by making it tighter. ) (This was around the time that Alfa was leaving the US market) I put a junkyard mill in it and replaced it with a WRC homologation.

Reliability is entirely a measure of the quality of the service. Good shop, good reliability; bad shop, and you have to do the same repairs over and over and over ...

When the one good shop I knew of closed (rather than deal with Fiat), I had to stop using Alfas as my daily drivers.

But I still miss the driving experience. I used to drive it year round, and didn't even bother with snow tires -- it was that well balanced.

 

Here in South Africa, the 2,5 liter was considered not powerful enough to compete with the BMW 535 in out local racing series at the time. In order to race the new 3 liter version they had to homologate it, so just 204 of these cars were built.

Basically its was an Autodelta conversion but the cams were made in SA and instead of fuel injection 6 Dellorto carbs were used, the aim being ease of tuning( clearly they thought it easy to tune 6 carbs!) The final drive was changed and the rev limiter was raised to 7000 rpm, there was a pretty fancy fiberglass bonnet with an air scoop in it, to feed the carbs. Wheel were split rin Compomotives and the brakes were enlarged. A stiffer anti roll bar was fitted and suspension was stiffened.

Power was conservatively rated at 140 kW or so and acceleration was pretty good and the car pulled a top speed of 225 km/h.

This was a South African only model, will try find a picture to post. Today these cars are very rare and very sought after here in South Africa. And yes they did beat the BMW 535i, in fact they were so fast that BMW withdrew from local racing half way through the 1985 season.

 

in 1986 me and my partner bought identical new white GTV-6's. I had it as my only car (can't say daily driver since I lived in manhattan and people don't usually use cars there as daily drivers) for 5 years, then a year in houston as my daily driver. put on around 65 miles; had very little trouble with the car, at the end it started smoking and decided I didn't want to mess with it so sold it for $2400. My partner's car was nothing but trouble (but maybe part of it was him) replaced most of the engine in the first couple years, electronics and many other stuff (under warranty); he still has it, though a tree fell on it a while back and made it undrivable. so maybe that car had some bad karma.
aside from my 308 GT4 it was the most fun I've even been in a car. It's alittle more civilized than my ferrari, not as raw as the ferrari; comfort-wise can be a daily driver. reliability I think so also as long as it has been properly maintained.

Been giving some thought to buying another one and might if the right one comes up at the right price. great car
called it a poor man's ferrari. exotica on a honda budget (when new anyway).

 

Maintenance issues must be put into perspective: the periodic maintenance requirements of just about any Italian car may horrify a Honda driver, but to anyone who has dealt with a Ferrari, maintenance on an Alfa will be a drop in the bucket, even if you drive it (hard) every day.

 

We are having this same convo on Alfabb.com All I have to say is that mine holds up to the everyday drive of a 16 year old. I love it. The car is alot of fun and you really can't beat the handling. If you need a test run just send me a PM if you get to the Atlanta area. As someone said the syncros are prone to wear out. My second gear syncro is going. I just stop at N and proceed to second. Or I just skip it totally and go to third. Good luck with the hunt...

 

If you must have an Alfa, get a 164!
All the fun with 1/4 the problems

 

although alot newer and much sturdier, the 164 requires the same religious alfa maintenance. It has alot more electrical things that go wrong but a well maintained one can last forever. Gorgeous car inside out, it should be my next purchase.

 

We bought an '82 GTV6 new from Alamo Sports Cars in San Antonio (no longer exists). It's a neat car and at the time worked well for us with a couple kids still at home. We took many a drive from North Dallas to SAT in the car. My only gripe was being 5' and reaching the clutch and seeing well over the steering wheel. We still have the car which resides on wheel dollies. Maybe some day it will see some refurbishing and be on the road again - it only has about 17k miles.

Carol