I have been speaking privately with a couple of the "pro's" on this board, Rick and Lou, about this very subject. This article really brings home what we already knew The U.S. Airline Pilots Who Barely Make Minimum Wage - Skift I find it as fascinating as it is atrocious, the small guys start off earning less than a year one technician a Mercedes dealer in a large market, at least the mechanic is on commission and can get overtime, the pilots are screwed. ( and trust me if your good it wont take 35 years for the tech to get to the highest numbers here). I remember reading an article in Flying magazine where Les Abend wrote about how when he was a regional guy with his name on the cockpit door, his dad said something to the effect of , they should put your salary here instead of your name and see how many passengers get off the plane So whats the answer ??, I am as far from workers union guy as anyone could be, but surely the blame has to go around equally, the airlines, the pilots the unions and for sure the paying public. The paying public want the safest flight they can in the newest aircraft with the best trained crew, then go and buy the cheapest ticket available..... Regulation was before my time, and I have read pro's and Con's on both sides. Was it better before deregulation ?? I hate government intrusion with a passion, but surely there are enough bums for enough seats that someone could sit down and say its costs $xxx per seat to fly a 757 from LA to NY so the ticket will costs $xyz... Im sure there are more bums than seats available on most flights...cause every flight I ever get on is FULL Will it get better with the new 1500 ATP rule, ? I don't think so, my buddy who is a 1900hr CFII flying about 40-60 hrs a week at $45 per hour was just offered right seat on Horizon at $25K a year... with rent, alimony and child support its just aint gonna happen. So should pilots stop showing up for work, should the pilots unions get tougher ?? I want the airlines and oil companies to make as much profit for the share holders as possible, but not at the expense of safety, which IMHO is what having "cheap" pilots does.. I have no dog in this race just curious on peoples point of view
Agree. Pay for pilots has gone down a lot over the past 30 years. Here is one of the critical pieces to the challenge mentioned in the article - the hours flying vs. the total hours away from home: The amount the airline is paying the pilot PER FLIGHT HOUR isn't too bad. Unfortunately, there is no way for the pilot to work a normal 40 hour a week job flying. Also, even the top pay for senior captains has gone down from 30 years ago. A salary of $150k to $200k a year is only about half of the buying power that a similar top salary level was 30 years ago (the effect of inflation over the years). So, the top salaries are probably only about 2/3 the buying power of the old top salaries. .
The reality is that flying, in any capacity, has to be a job you love, and not one you are doing to earn the most money. People who get into it for the money usually don't stick around, because they figure that out-- and, in many cases you can get a high paying job and still fly for fun on the weekends. I'm not going to defend the low regional FO pay, since I think it's a bit ridiculous. To put it in perspective, though, it is an entry level job-- but even compared to other entry level jobs, I think it's generally too low. It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few years. The number of student starts is pretty low, and it's hard to see where the next generation of professional pilots will come from. I think the pay will have to go up.
I have a co-worker whose wife is a pilot for Endeavor Air, a Delta regional carrier. Unfortunately, their hub in Atlanta was dismantled when they went chapter 11 (as Pinnacle Airlines) a few years ago, and now she flies out of MSP. The problem is that they live (and he works) here in ATL. So they hardly see each other anymore.....
Go to China but appears to be for senior pilots. Chinese Airlines Lure Pilots With Double the Pay of U.S. Captains - WSJ.com
I would think MSP-ATL would be a pretty easy commute, especially with privileges on Delta. It's very common for airline pilots to live somewhere other than their base. Probably more common than not.
There is no such thing as an "easy commute." Drive to the airport and pay to park (because the company won't), deal with TSA (oh, make sure your wearing your uniform because the badge isn't enough), hope and prey you'll get a seat cause its booked 7 over capacity. If your lucky to get on that should put you at work about 4 hours early. As for doing it for the love of it...I still love flying. Doing it for a living however has taken its toll. I'm giving it another year or so to turn around or I'm out. I am optimistic it will get better though.
a good friend (my original CFII) and the husband of girl who cuts my hair work for the same private jet firm. they get a decent pay, but hours and on call can be screwy. one is based out of Tulsa, but lives in Dallas. they don't have any backup pilots yet for this one owners plane who eventually will do some leasebacks. anyway, owner decided last minute he wanted to fly. pilot drove to Tulsa from Dallas only to fly the owner and his son back to Dallas for a round of golf. life of a private jet pilot. friend flies some cool celebrities, also surprising how many TV Evangelists fly on private jets.
I met Pat Robertson during his presidential bid in '91 and he was flying around in a Citation. Capaign money I'm sure but still. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
I've posted before, but here is my plane in front of Kenneth Copeland's hangar. A good collection plus 4-5 jets including the Citation X for "mission work". Copeland is one of churches congress and IRS was giving attention a couple years ago, also in news last week for measles outbreak among members after telling them not to vaccinate. Image Unavailable, Please Login
this on CNN today about Copeland, only 1 line about his jets, most of it about the vaccine. Former staffer: Measles church counseled faith, not shots ? CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs
I'm headed back to work today on my "day off." They have me on a 4-day trip starting tomorrow worth about 16 hrs of pay credit. I'm on for 5 days total, so we'll see how this week plays out and I'll report back.
Every time a regional carrier augers in and the crappola hits the fan, the whole debate about flight crew hours, conditions and pay is championed by the press and other media talking-heads. The carriers take their hits, but like a great fighter, they know how to bob one way or the other and take the punch and the hits don't seem to hurt them much. The spin doctors take to the airwaves and make promises, assure the public they will look into the problem and then basically outlast the public's interest and outcry (which is short in our society). When the fan blades are clean again, it's back to business as usual...clearly the pay scale Ferrari-Tech has posted for regional flight crews proves that little to nothing has changed. With travel expenses often on the crew's dime, how can a flight crew pay for proper housing/meals while abroad with that level of income? I feel that it is a sad state of affairs. The most appalling aspect is this: regional flights seem to be inordinately expensive; short "local" jumps often times being much more than a transcontinental flight. I can't believe that favorable freight contracts on trans-con flights can justify the difference and that regional flights carry no significant hi-paying freight of their own. Perhaps, like with Ford and the Pinto, the strategists have got it all figured out...it's less expensive to pay off the P.I. and wrongful death claims after a tragedy than to provide the flying public with experienced, well-rested, trained and paid flight crews
You've got that right...each pax is worth X dollars and the number crunchers know exactly what that is (I've heard 1-1.5M). Anytime the NTSB/FAA wants to change a regulation, running the numbers is top priority. I received the new 1500 hour rule change impact study ages ago. If I remember correctly it was over 100 pages and the first 3rd of it was about economic impact. Its always $ first, safety second.
