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ABS Brake and Clutch Bleeding Questions

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by moysiuan, Jan 20, 2017.

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  1. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
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    #1 moysiuan, Jan 20, 2017
    So time for another winter project, replace the original clutch hose to the slave cylinder. Seems straightforward, but need to confirm the bleed procedure for my 1988 ABS vehicle.

    From all the threads I have read in this, the 328 and 348 sections, the "best" bleeding approach for an ABS system is using a Motive pressure bleeder, which I have, with the following varying procedures (I am trying to interpret the best practices, but am confused so please correct me if I am mistaken):

    Turn on key, but don't start the car, and leave in the on position. (Some say turn on, bleed a wheel, turn off, then do this again for each wheel? Some say turn on, then pump a few times til the pedal is hard to drain the accumulator? Then leave on?)

    Remove fluid from the master with a turkey baster, fill with any DOT 4 fluid (any recommendations, I have some old (upopened ATE blue), some say the "wrong" fluid can affect the seals, what would be a wrong fluid as long as DOT4 would that be sufficient?).
    Attach a Motive pressure bleeder, pump up to 5 psi (or the least amount that will do the job).
    Put lots of towels around things in case something bursts. (some say the clear vinyl
    line that comes with the bleeder can easily burst, would Motive really provide that crappy a hose?)

    Looks like I should do the RR, LR, RF, LF as the longest to shortest lines, but do I bleed the clutch slave first, or after the brake bleed, or inbetween the rear and front bleeds? Do I even need to bleed the brakes (although its due anyways so I intend to) or could one just do the clutch?

    Can/should one press the brake, or clutch pedal while the Motive is attached for some "extra" clearing of the lines, or do you never do that?

    The new clutch hose I bought from AW Italian is a plain rubber brake style hose, unlike the stainless braided hose that is the original. I have been unable to source a braided hose. Is the plain rubber going to be ok so close to the exhaust header area? Should I put some hot rodders type insulation around it? Anyone know where to source the OEM braided style?

    Thanks for any tips from those who have done all this before, the various threads range from very simple "its a no brainer" to people with all kinds of problems getting the pedal to floor and the slave or master binding etc., some having blockages, no info. on doing the clutch and the brakes together, so I thought we could assemble a more definitive updated thread on this.
     
  2. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    #2 yelcab, Jan 20, 2017
    You asked this a second time so I assume you did not get your answer the first time.

    Bleeding brakes is quite simple even on ABS system.

    You can simply attach a motive bleeder to the master cylinder reservoir, pump it up, and drain from each of the four corners. No need to touch the pedal or turn the key on, even though it will be slower.

    If you want it faster, then in addition to the Motive, you turn on the car, sit in the car and pump the pedal slowly to drain more fluid out. Remember to top up the Motive and not let it go empty.

    I have found that using the Motive alone is sufficient to get a good bleed. Some people will prefer to turn on the car and cycle the fluid through the ABS unit. That is acceptable, not required. It is important to change most the fluid every 2 years, it is not required to change every single drop of fluid.
     
  3. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
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    #3 moysiuan, Jan 20, 2017
    Yes, I am about to get on with the job so thought one more shot for comments might be timely. Thank you kindly for the note, sounds like it is as straight forward as I am hoping it is.
     
  4. ///Mike

    ///Mike F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2003
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    Bugtussle
    #4 ///Mike, Jan 20, 2017
    FWIW, word is that Ate fluid provides excellent seal lubrication. I use it almost exclusively for that reason. Some of the higher temp racing fluids have less seal lubrication in order to increase the boiling point.

    I'd tend to use Ate Type 200 instead of the Blue though. Same fluid, just without the blue dye. Blue is great stuff but it tends to permanently stain the reservoir, so be aware of that if you're big on originality. It won't be a huge thing, but the plastic will take on a blue tinge after using Blue. Personally, I'd save the Blue for another car...
     
  5. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    #5 RayJohns, Jan 21, 2017
    I use Motul RBF600. For bleeding, I just put some clear hose over the bleeder nipple (into a glass jar) and pump the bubbles out. Works great.

    On my motorcycle I have installed one way speed bleeder valves, which are super handy. I may see about adding those to the 458 also.

    Ray
     
  6. moysiuan

    moysiuan F1 Rookie
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    #6 moysiuan, Jan 21, 2017
    Thank you for the comments, I have also heard that all brake fluid formulation is no longer identical, even if all DOT rated appropriately.

    Any comment on whether to bleed the clutch line first before the brake lines, or does it not really matter?
     

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  7. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    #7 yelcab, Jan 21, 2017
    don't matter. Clutch line is the easiest of all.
     

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