A question / rant about xbox 360, Wii, PS3, Gamers in general! | Page 2 | FerrariChat

A question / rant about xbox 360, Wii, PS3, Gamers in general!

Discussion in 'Technology' started by DrStranglove, Dec 27, 2008.

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  1. SPEEDCORE

    SPEEDCORE Four Time F1 World Champ

    Jul 11, 2005
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    Toe Knee
    Where you or your friends on the doco The King of Kong :eek: :D


    As mentioned afew times now. Getting into the Games Industry is a lot of hard work, having the gift of designing games gets you nowhere(without money). Most designers are coders and the ones that aren't have paid to get their games made(AAA+ titles cost over $10mill to make) or have other skills that can contribute in making the game.

    What most people see is the few development houses that bring in the big bucks but they don't realise that most game companies struggle to stay open and when the game finally ships end up closing the doors. Most of the profits go to the publisher.

    Unless you are the CEO/Lead Design/owner of the game company you don't really see that much of the $$$. On average the lead game programmer makes $70k (based on yearly surveys) but that's with years of experience, programmers in general make less.
    Most studios are 30 or less in size so they usually hire people with multiple talents, being able to just code isn't enough. From early on I learnt basic coding(cobol anyone lool) but I had a look at what is needed to be a game coder and pretty much you need to be a Maths genius :eek: Its all Assembly and C++ these days.

    There are other ways to getting into the game industry without needing a college degree or advanced skills in programming but just playing games isn't one of them. If this kid was serious he would be creating mods for the games he plays. Counter-Strike and Portal are classic examples of people creating something for fun/free and then being picked up by the studios. Tho he needs to look at PC games to create mods.. Console programming is much more difficult to get into as a hobbyist(well before XNA came along) but to get your work out there its easier to make mods for PC games. Just tell him to create a level for some random game(that comes with the tools). If he gives up within a day, he isn't cut to be a game designer ;)

    Some people have mentioned Game Testers but they really are the bottom of the tree when it comes to game production, all they do is test for bugs, the actual job is tedious as you play the same level over and over for weeks/months at a time. Actual gamers get to mix things up by advancing in the games/changing games but testers are required to replay certain sections. For coders its just a foot in the industry.

    This kids theory of getting "contacts" from playing games is very flawed, the only contacts he will be making is new friends to challenge. The best way of making contacts(even for nerds :eek: ) is still face to face interaction. If he was semi-serious he would go to the game developer conferences(GDC) and meet up with the development studios as well as going to the seminars to see where the trends are going and what they are looking for.

    Finally there are professional gamers that compete at the "Cyber Olympics" called the World Cyber Games which has been around since 2000. Originally it was mainly PC games like CS, Quake, Fifa and Starcraft but consoles have finally made it into the comp. This year GH3 was introduced. If he was serious about being a "world champion" he would have to have compete at the local level to qualify then qualify again to represent the USA at the games(involves leaving the house). Winner for the GH3 comp this year was $10k cash + prizes. Again he would need sponsorship as he would need to travel overseas to compete at the finals. Plus the fact he isn't competing against people that just picked up the game 6mths ago, he is competing against players that have been playing it since the 1st game was released. The winner this year came from Britain. The USA didn't even make the top4. Professional gamers really are the creme of the crop, worldwide and only the ones that win comps get any form of sponsorship(usually to cover travelling and hardware costs).

    He really has only 2 choices, he either becomes a GH competitor by competing at the WCG or a game developer/mod creator, you can't have it both ways as the time spent is either practising to be the best or learning to code :)

    Anyway why doesn't this kid have google, there are plenty of game industry websites around.
    http://www.gamesindustry.biz/
    http://www.gamasutra.com/

    Here are some examples of what skills he needs to be a game designer or lead programmer (not including the years of experience).
     
  2. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 8, 2005
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    Jerry
    yup
     
  3. dkabab

    dkabab Formula Junior

    Oct 27, 2007
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    David
    billy mitchel?
     
  4. AMGBiturbo

    AMGBiturbo Karting

    Nov 21, 2008
    59
  5. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
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    I wrote games back in the day (70's) for my own entertainment (BASIC, FORTRAN, COBOL) for a B&W screen or teletypewriter. Just 2D obviously. The amount of code and math knowledge of the many disiplines required AND THE ABILITY TO APPLY IT, was simply amazing.

    Imagine this as an (OLD) example. Your computer can "think" in ONLY 2 dimentions and can only handle a 2D array (matrix) of about 50 x 50. The computer simply will NOT handle anything larger. Too small if you are replicating "space" for a "Star Trek" game.

    Now, imagine a way to increase that matrix to 10000 x 10000 and have control (via "controlled probability" formulas, self-written of course) over what is in each and every space in that 2D matrix. Now move yourself around that "enlarged" box in a predictable and controlled fashion. Not hard, just tedious. A few 10's of lines of code, max. A couple of weeks of trial and a whole bunch of error. A couple of my formulas to do this were 5 type-written, continuous, lines long.

    Oh, NOW for Real FUN, TRY to MAKE IT work in 3D!!!!!!!

    Good Luck, GH !!!!!!!!!!!
     
  6. dkabab

    dkabab Formula Junior

    Oct 27, 2007
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    David
    flew right over my head
     
  7. Far Out

    Far Out F1 Veteran

    Feb 18, 2007
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    #32 Far Out, Dec 28, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2008
    I fear that in some years time, lots of kids interested in playing guitar will not do the tedious work of learning it, but just pick up a GH controller and be happy with it, as they can "play" their favourite songs ... I can only imagine the conversation:

    "Yeah, I'm a guitar player"
    "Uh no, that's a Playstation controller, not a guitar"
    "It looks like a guitar and it sounds the same, so I'm a guitar player"

    We can only hope the girls don't fall for that kind of s*** :D

    +10^4

    Coding games is maths, maths, maths. It is unbelievably rewarding to see all that formulas you learned in school (and thought you'd never use them) really working, but it's tough to get there. Something the average gamer kid does not want to see, as maths is often the subject (needing the most work) that gets neglected first if you're addicted to playing games. Still I believe that math teachers could spark a lot of interest if they showed their students how the things they don't want to learn have the most important role when it comes to the hobby #1 of the kids...
     
  8. lukabratzi

    lukabratzi Rookie

    Nov 21, 2008
    46
    Speedcore, do you make games or program?
     
  9. DrStranglove

    DrStranglove FChat Assassin
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    Best line yet!
     
  10. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
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    #35 mwr4440, Dec 28, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2008
    David,

    And not to say or insinuate you are stupid by any means, but the scenerio above is total "Mickey Mouse" compaird to today's games and graphics. Gives you a small idea of the brain power and subject matter expertise (high-math and art) required.

    You just ain't getting there from here playing GH or any other game. Writting, NOT PLAYing, is the difference. This kid is headed into one DEEP ****-Hole and his parents are just as guilty.

    Can you imagine putting on your McDonald's Application, under previous jobs help: "Gitar Hero Player."


    DrS,

    Seriously don't want to put a monkey on your back, but, can't you call Social Services or something. Even if it "on the sly?" The kid IS SUPPOSED TO BE IN SCHOOL until 18 after all ............. Right?!?!?!?! If you or someone else doesn't we will all be paying this kid to play GH via our taxes in short order.
     
  11. DrStranglove

    DrStranglove FChat Assassin
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    I am too much in to "free will" to do that for just this. BUt I agree, his parents are to blame. If it were up to me, I would smash the kids tv and every other device in the house and give him a foot ball. Or papers to Boot Camp!

    I am pretty sure you can drop out of school at 16 with a parents permission, but I am no expert.
     
  12. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 8, 2005
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    One of my best friends from high school years. Doris Self, the older woman, was like a mother to me. She was an amazing person.
     
  13. dkabab

    dkabab Formula Junior

    Oct 27, 2007
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    David
    im sure it is... but yeah as i said, beyond my comprehension. i respect anyone who is good at anything i cant do!


    i dont know if it was the movie or what but he really came across as a bad guy.. that said i dont know him so yeah...
     
  14. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    He can be 'difficult' but Ive known him since her was 17 so that goes a long way.

    The doc also manipulated a lot of his footage to portray him in a much worse light than was true...they needed a bad guy or the show didnt work as well.
     
  15. SPEEDCORE

    SPEEDCORE Four Time F1 World Champ

    Jul 11, 2005
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    Toe Knee
    No and used to :( The programming I did was more business applications and Y2k COBOL issues haha. I had a keen interest early on to get into game programming but after seeing the math skills required and the lack of an industry in this country at the time, I didn't pursue it. Actually gave up on programming and I don't know anyone from those times(mid-late 90's) that still code.

    I still have a keen interest on game design and the gaming industry and wish to join the industry one day but for now I just enjoy the end products :eek:

    Good Luck in your pursuit in the game industry tho :)
     
  16. Glen_Lloyd

    Glen_Lloyd Formula Junior
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    Dec 13, 2003
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  17. shahedc

    shahedc Formula 3

    Jun 4, 2007
    1,625
    Washington DC

    I agree that you need massive experience to join a top-notch 360/PS3 team, but you can make a simple Xbox360 game by using the free dev kit and libraries, along with Visual C# Express. (yes, I am actually doing that in my spare time, while my primary job is being Software Team Lead for professional developers spread out in multiple locations)

    When Win95 and Win98 were the rage, I had taught myself C/C++, Win32, DirectX and started learning Windows Game Programming on my own. I was also excited about WinCE as an optional environment on the Sega Dreamcast, but that didn't go anywhere.

    Anyway, now that I have .NET experience under my belt from my job, I download Microsoft's XNA Game Studio Express, which allows me to use MS Visual C# 2008 and the .NET 3.5 Framework to make games for Windows and Xbox360.

    It's a great place to start, and I would recommend it for anyone who has the programming skills, or wants to learn.

    As for the testing jobs.. I agree. You CANNOT just become a game programmer by being a game tester. Being a tester just gets your foot in the door of the game industry, but just as a tester. You would still need the programming/math skills to become a game programmer.

    ~shahedc
    .
     
  18. PeterS

    PeterS Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 24, 2003
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    I'll cry foul to any game manufacturer who hires any kid that (they kinow) dropped out of school. As for the parents who allow this to happen, they are often just as bad as their kids.
     

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